Question on repairing BABY's paint damage

[BarryK]

Ok, I went to two paint shops yesterday to get estimates on repairing the paint blisters on BABY's hood that she got at the car show on Sun.

I need opinions please as I'm new to paint repairs on Vette's.

The first shop has a lot of experience repairing and painting Vettes. In fact, while I was there he had no less than at least 6 Vettes in his shop ranging from '57's to '72's. Because of the location of the paint blisters on the hood and the fact BABY has a laquer paint job he said it would be next to impossible to only repair the blistered areas without making it noticeable and he wants to respray the entire hood. The problem he is concerned about is that because we aren't sure just how old the current paint job is on BABY when we get the new paint to respray the hood if it doesn't match perfectly we will see a shift in the paint differences all around the edges of the hood against the rest of the car.
He said all we can do is get a pint of the paint mixed up and before spraying it compare it to the car itself and either it will match or it won't.
Assuming the paint matchs close enough he wants about $350 to respray the hood
I know we could paint further out to help 'blend" in the new paint such as extending it out further past the edges of the hood such as to the top edges of the front fenders. If we did this than if there was any slight mismatch in the paint colors as it would end at a part of the car that now slopes down it probably wouldn't be noticable. The issue here would be that i'm sure doing this larger job would be MUCH more expensive and I can't afford it right now.

the 2nd shop i went to I know has done Vettes but not as many and their first reaction was to recommend I go to another shop - turns out their recommended shop I go to was the first place i'd already seen. their reason was simply that they spray more "metal" cars where the 1st place sprays more 'glass" cars so the shops tend to send appropiate customers to each other.
BUT, if I did decide i wanted them to do the work he would want to repair the blistered area only, not respray the entire hood. He would use a base/clear paint instead of laquer. I questioned using a base/clear patch on a laquer paint job but he said that by doing that he could reapir the damaged area only instead of requiring doing the entire hood as he can 'feather or blend in" the repaired area whereas he can't do that using laquer. He didn't seem to have any lack of confidence in being able to match the color on the existing paint job and make the repair basically "invisible". Thier pricing on the job though is much more at around $1000

So, what i have are 2 shops. One who is very experienced in Vettes and in spraying laquer but tells me we could be very "iffy" in getting a perfect color match so the repainted hood might be noticable. His rates are also much more reasonable. The other shop does less Vettes, wants to respray using base/clear, not laquer, is much more expensive, but seems to think he can match it perfectly ( or at least blend it in better so the 'repair lines' aren't noticeable).

Can anyone here with painting experiece please help me out? opinions? advise? recommendations?



Sorry this message got so long winded, I was just trying to explain in as much detail as possible so you could understand the issues as good as possible.


Barry

[BarryK]

oh, if it helps, i can probably snap off a few pics of the damage to show you and post them


Barry

[WayneC]

Did you ask that first shop what he recommends doing/using, or did you just tell him you intended to order the (lacquer) paint for him to spray?

The comment about whether the color "when we get the new paint" will match perfectly makes me think you intend to order lacquer for the job. In that case, he's being realistic... if he can't mix the color himself (or have his trusted supplier do it, with the car to look at), he can't guarantee a match.

So the shop is being honest and realistic by telling you there may be a perceptible difference between the hood and the rest of the car, especially if you're ordering paint using a formula number. It's a fact of life. How big a difference depends on the viewer's ability to critique paint work, and other factors such as the fading of the old paint, which itself may not be the original DuPont lacquer formula. Even spraying the entire car, but spraying the hood separately, or from a different angle, or on a different day, or with a different gun setting, or having a different worker do the prep sanding... may all be noticeable by a professional, yet look flawless to the casual observer.

I'd do the whole hood, but I'd give the painter the freedom of choosing the paint, assuming you've chosen a painter with positive references. I agree that taking the paint to a cut-line of some sort would alleviate any differences, so that's an even better approach. I'd also prefer a guy who is used to working on fiberglass, because the heat damage may extend to the fiberglass itself, not merely the paint.

I am skeptical that the hood can be merely patched and blended with a completely different type of paint and have it come out perfect and imperceptible, but OTOH there are some real "paint wizards" out there. I had a fiberglass Avanti once that was painted with an unusual baby-s**t brown that was not an original paint for that car manufacturer, and was of unknown origin; I consider myself pretty good at critiqueing paintwork... I had a damaged front fender "blended" at the recommendation of the painter, and afterwards I could not tell where it was repaired, no matter how hard I tried and under what lighting conditions... that guy did amazing work.

[BarryK]

Wayne
I wasn't planning on just buying any paint based on my deteminations and than expecting it to be perfect.
the first paint shop told me to go to his paint supplier and have them look at the car and determine the mix and he could than do the spraying. He doesn't mix his own paint. Where he sent me to go get the paint is his trusted supplier but even than he wasn't going to guarantee a perfect match simply because we don't know the age of the current paint job, whether it has any actual fading on it, etc. As I understand it, the mix on the current paint could be slightly off from when it was painted because of when they mixed it than.

I think I've decided to go with the 1st shop simply because his greater experience of working on Vettes. I just got back from his paint supplier (who also happens to be a painter himself for over 20 years). The painter shop guy looked at the car and the overall quality of the current paint job on it. It was his opinion that the paint looked very good overall, probably was garage kept before I got it and therefore very little or no fading on it. Because of that he thought it best to go with the standard correct factory mix of the 1965 Milano Maroon. If there are differences after spray testing a small area of the hood he would make adjustments to the mix to try to correct it.

We are going to try spraying the whole hood but I guess if the paint shop can't get it just perfect I'll have to bite the bullet, spend more money, and have it painted from the tip of each front fender across to the other fender tip and all the way from the windshield up to the nose. I'm afraid to ask what that will cost me if we have to do that!

I do understand what you mean about how careful the critique of the overall finish is. I don't have the car for NCRS judging and it's not a trailer queen, but it IS in excellent restored condition and what I'm looking for is a good enough match that myself or anyone else (barring a true professional painter who i'm sure has a much more critical eye than most)looking at the car and realizing there is a difference. I'm sure I'll be the most critical looker at the car and if I can see the difference it will bother me. Even if it's only 95% close but I can't see the difference it would be fine.

[WayneC]

Sounds like the correct plan to me. Consider having the shop buff out the rest of the car (or at least the top of the front end) when he does the hood, which might enhance the match. Ask the price of including painting the top of the front end, it may not cost nearly as much as you think, and probably less than doing it separately later.

[BarryK]

Wayne

I'll do that. thanks for all the advise.

Barry

[61 Silver]

Hi!

Just a thought, but did you ever contact the company that restored your 1965. I still have 3/4 of a gallon of lacquer left over from my 1965 restoration project.

Ray

[BarryK]

Ray

The car was restored by the previous owner himself as I understand it over a 4 year period but we don't think it was painted at that time. After he restored it he traded it in at a Vette specialist (where I found it and purchased it) on a big-block midyear. When I bought the car it was only about 500 miles after the restoration. The paint is in pretty good shape but not only 500 miles new so we strongly suspect it was painted at least a few years before the rest of the restoration work was done.
During the 4-year restoration he did, he didn't keep so much as one receipt or take one picture as documentation (what an idiot) so I very much doubt he kept any old paint laying around from a paint job previous to that. But your suggestion is a good one and I can contact the place I bought the car from anyway - maybe they can try to contact the guy who sold them the car just to check anyway. Who knows, maybe at the time the paint shop who painted it was smart enough to hand him some left over paint for future needs even if he wasn't smart enough to request it and it's still sitting somewhere in his garage.

People amaze me - the previous owner owner knew enough about the car to restore it himself. He knew enough to get so many little details correct during the restoration such as redoing/recreating "factory" chalk marks, using proper/correct fasteners, he went through the trouble and expense of having the original real leaf rebuilt instead of replacing it with an incorrect new one, etc, but he doesn't document anything of this work! If it had been me, I'd have hundreds of pictures and every receipt for every part or out-service work no matter how small or trivial. Oh well, no accounting for other peoples actions.

Barry

[IH2LOSE]

If it had been me, I'd have hundreds of pictures and every receipt for every part or out-service work no matter how small or trivial

Barry when I am done with a restoration (I have done several in the past)and sell my restored car.I never offer the restoration information as part of the deal.I do collect and catorgarize ever minute detail of the restoration with pictures and recipts and notes.I always keep my restoration documentation for my self.The only thing I will give to the new owner is a couple of digital photos on cd.And the recipt for the motor rebuild showing what went into the motor and who did it.the type of paint and the paint code.

I keep the restoration books for myself,Its just like looking thru and old photo album or a book that you had written yourself ,its something I would never even think of giving away with the car.

[BarryK]

IH2LOSE

I see your point about if he decided to keep everything for himself, but according to the shop I bought the car from he had nothing at all. It was my impression that they asked for any restoration info/documentation and were told there was none.
As for photos at least, I agree, I would probably want to keep them for memories but if they did exist I'd be willing to pay for the copies (if it was film pics I'd pay for reprints from the negatives or if it were digital pics I'd pay for the CD's to copy them onto at least).

Barry

[c5vetter]

Barry,

By checking with Tony/Keith they may be able to find out where the guy bought the paint and perhaps get the actual paint code/mixture brew! worth a shot anyway.

[BarryK]

Rick

Yes, I'm going to try calling Keith today to see if he can still get in contact with the guy who sold him the car. I imagine the mixture when it was painted last was the standard factory mixture formula but at the same time who is to know if it was mixed correctly when they got the paint for the paint job. I'm hoping that maybe the previous owner has a small amount the last painter may have given him after the paint job to keep for touch-ups or repairs. Unfortunately, i'm not over confident that he has any but it's always worth a shot and a simple phone call.

Barry

[Sting Ray]

Barry,


I know alot of guys that take pictures but never keep recipts, there wife's might find them

Tom

[BarryK]

Tom

that's pretty funny but a good point. if the wives knew how much we actually spent on these cars they would freak.
Mine would want it as an excuse to say that since i spent that much money on the Vette she should be able to go out and buy more jewery
LOL

oh well, i STILL keep every receit for anything i have done or a buy

Barry

[koolkatprez]

Hi Barry,

I'd suggest that you go to the paint supplier that the first shop recommended and have them run a scanner on your hood for the best possible paint match.
Good paint suppliers have a computerized system that can match paint almost to an exact science. Once that's done you have to depend on the guy with the paint gun to get it right.
Since the original finish is lacquer it's ok to go with a base coat, clear coat finish over it. But still have them use a sealing primer before repainting it otherwise any imperfections that were present before the repaint will eventually show through the new paint.
Blending over the fenders is the best way to do the job but if you're limited on funds just painting the hood should be ok and again, with a good painter he should be able to make it look very very close.

Good luck!