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  • GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags:  Is the media portraying the whole picture?
  • GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags:  Is the media portraying the whole picture?
  • GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags:  Is the media portraying the whole picture?
  • GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags:  Is the media portraying the whole picture?

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  1. #1
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    Default GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags: Is the media portraying the whole picture?

    Update - April 3, 2014: The following posts were split off from this thread: http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...d.php?t=137713 since the discussion started to move away from the original topic. -- Rob

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    I can't really contribute much to the discussion regarding Porsche's GT3 engine bonfires other than that I have read that Porsche has agreed to replace the engines in every single one built thus far.

    As for Mary Barra, I met her briefly and sat in on an interview with her during the NAIAS event back in January of 2013 in Detroit. I was impressed with her and I'm confident that she'll do what's necessary. It's unfortunate that upon her promotion to CEO, she basically stepped right into this mess.

    Personally, I don't see Lincoln as a direct threat to Cadillac in my opinion. I've spent a lot of time in the seat of a 2013 Lincoln MKZ since brand new. (No, not mine.) It's a nice car. I like the styling, ergonomics, comfort and features. However, the car is just too big for my taste. It's also horrible on gas. I drive a 2008 BMW 335xi coupe equipped with BMW's twin-turbo charged, 300hp inline-6. Admittedly, I have a heavy foot as the forced induction is intoxicating on the highway. However, even with my heavy foot, I get 1.5 mpg better than the Lincoln MKZ with much less horsepower and a lighter-footed driver behind the wheel. (Both cars spend equivalent time on the highway vs. city.) Anyway, I digress....Lincoln's MKZ sales are in the toilet, and FLM is doing everything they can to promote this car with aggressive TV marketing and now 0% financing for 60 months. To the best of my knowledge, Cadillac hasn't had the same problems with the CTS - especially with the ATS and XTS contributing.

    Here is where my concern comes in: regardless of what others may think about the government bailing GM out of bankruptcy, I think it was the proverbial kick in the ass that GM needed to make them realize that they need to step it up a very big notch in order for their automobiles to be competitive in today's global automotive market. With car companies like Hyundai and Kia building really awesome cars (something I never thought I'd hear myself say...) with excellent warranty programs, reliability and styling for a lot less money, GM can no longer continue spitting out pieces of crap like they did in the seventies, eighties and a good part of the nineties.

    I think we've seen fantastic improvement in GM's overall quality since the bailout - Cadillac and Corvette are excellent examples. With that said - they CANNOT continue to produce products with suspicious / faulty components that have the potential to harm people. This issue with the faulty ignition switches should have been immediately investigated and nipped in the bud before it ever got as far as it did.

    I don't care how awesome your products are. I don't care if your automotive styling makes other car company's cars look like Yugos. I don't care if your automotive quality blows Mercedes, Rolls Royce or Bentley into the weeds. As soon as you start losing consumer confidence in your products due to faulty components such as these ignition switches - you start losing customers on a mass scale - and that's something that GM cannot afford now, or ever.

    Hopefully with the recent appointment of Jeff Boyer as Vice President of Global Vehicle Safety, this is just the first of many moves we'll see GM make in order to insure that a situation like the faulty ignition switches does not arise again.

    On a small side-note, I recently had to bring my BMW into the dealer for an oil change and new brakes. I couldn't wait for their service department and had to get into the office ASAP. They ended up giving me a brand new 2014 328i GT with 325 miles on the odometer as a loaner. This GT came with various...."M" bits from BMW's M parts bin. I was initially psyched to get this as a loaner as I was curious how the new BMWs compared to my generation. Long story short....I was extremely disappointed. The venerable 3-series has become...bloated. It's a big car (IMHO) compared to previous generations. Ride quality was excellent, however their new steering systems suck. Turning the steering wheel was the equivalent of sticking your index finger into a bowl of jello and swirling. I don't think I've ever driven an automobile where I felt so disconnected from it and the road.

    Closing the doors yielded the equivalent sound of slamming the door shut on a microwave oven. Gone is the nice, solid sound of a well-built automobile.

    The biggest disappointment was the driving modes. If memory serves me correctly I believe it came with "Eco-Tour, Comfort, Sport and Sport plus"....something along those lines. Of course, I immediately put it in Sport Plus. Considering that the 328 comes with a naturally aspirated inline-6, I didn't expect it to accelerate like my 335. The acceleration was ok, but nothing to write home about. The worst part about it was that the engine would rev with a lot of noise, but the speed of acceleration did not match the amount of racket coming from the engine. As soon as you shut the engine down and then start it back up, the car automatically defaults to Eco-Tour mode - which is the equivalent of trying to drive a Rickshaw on the highway. It was just....awful. I couldn't wait to pick up my 335 at the end of the day.

    Everything I've read in magazines and online indicates that the BMW faithful have also grown disappointed with the direction that BMW seems to be moving with their 3-series. If Cadillac continues to move in the direction their moving with the ATS, CTS and XTS, I have a feeling we'll be seeing the car magazines consistently sounding trumpets of praise for Cadillac over BMW - as long as we don't have any further unfortunate situations pop up like we do with the faulty ignition switches.




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    Mary Barra Update On Recalls - 03-17-2014





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    Quote Originally Posted by ltmax View Post
    Porsche is scrambling to replace burning GT3 engines, something with the con-rods, I think. We'll see what kind of press coverage this gets but I wouldn't get to 'uppity' over it with this GM keyswitch fiasco going on now. I hope new CEO Mary Barra breaks out with a creative and effective recovery to it, props to her if she pulls it off. They need to subpeonea Ackerson!!!
    As for the Viper, not to be heartless but as the Vette racing team would put it: Take No Prisoners. Stick the knife in, put 'em out. Get Gilles to STFU. Then Cadillac should do the same thing to Lincoln, take them out. Then GMC should move on with trucks. You can imagine where I'm going with this...
    The GT3 motors which kick rods out then set cars on fire was the lead story this morning on Automotive News's "First Shift" webcast. In the auto industry that's pretty big coverage.

    As for...
    Stick the knife in, put 'em out
    I say, stick the knife in, rotate it then pull up hard when you pull it out.

    As for Ackerson...he's moron but in his defense, the bad stuff that went on initially with this ign. switch recall happened before his watch. Unfortunately, Mr. Wagoner and others should be blamed for the GM culture that had GM's engineering resources marginalizing the problem at first.
    Last edited by Hib Halverson; 03-19-14 at 11:50 PM. Reason: added content

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I can't really contribute much to the discussion regarding Porsche's GT3 engine bonfires other than that I have read that Porsche has agreed to replace the engines in every single one built thus far.

    As for Mary Barra, I met her briefly and sat in on an interview with her during the NAIAS event back in January of 2013 in Detroit. I was impressed with her and I'm confident that she'll do what's necessary. It's unfortunate that upon her promotion to CEO, she basically stepped right into this mess.

    Personally, I don't see Lincoln as a direct threat to Cadillac in my opinion. I've spent a lot of time in the seat of a 2013 Lincoln MKZ since brand new. (No, not mine.) It's a nice car. I like the styling, ergonomics, comfort and features. However, the car is just too big for my taste. It's also horrible on gas. I drive a 2008 BMW 335xi coupe equipped with BMW's twin-turbo charged, 300hp inline-6. Admittedly, I have a heavy foot as the forced induction is intoxicating on the highway. However, even with my heavy foot, I get 1.5 mpg better than the Lincoln MKZ with much less horsepower and a lighter-footed driver behind the wheel. (Both cars spend equivalent time on the highway vs. city.) Anyway, I digress....Lincoln's MKZ sales are in the toilet, and FLM is doing everything they can to promote this car with aggressive TV marketing and now 0% financing for 60 months. To the best of my knowledge, Cadillac hasn't had the same problems with the CTS - especially with the ATS and XTS contributing.

    Here is where my concern comes in: regardless of what others may think about the government bailing GM out of bankruptcy, I think it was the proverbial kick in the ass that GM needed to make them realize that they need to step it up a very big notch in order for their automobiles to be competitive in today's global automotive market. With car companies like Hyundai and Kia building really awesome cars (something I never thought I'd hear myself say...) with excellent warranty programs, reliability and styling for a lot less money, GM can no longer continue spitting out pieces of crap like they did in the seventies, eighties and a good part of the nineties.

    I think we've seen fantastic improvement in GM's overall quality since the bailout - Cadillac and Corvette are excellent examples. With that said - they CANNOT continue to produce products with suspicious / faulty components that have the potential to harm people. This issue with the faulty ignition switches should have been immediately investigated and nipped in the bud before it ever got as far as it did.

    I don't care how awesome your products are. I don't care if your automotive styling makes other car company's cars look like Yugos. I don't care if your automotive quality blows Mercedes, Rolls Royce or Bentley into the weeds. As soon as you start losing consumer confidence in your products due to faulty components such as these ignition switches - you start losing customers on a mass scale - and that's something that GM cannot afford now, or ever.

    Hopefully with the recent appointment of Jeff Boyer as Vice President of Global Vehicle Safety, this is just the first of many moves we'll see GM make in order to insure that a situation like the faulty ignition switches does not arise again.

    On a small side-note, I recently had to bring my BMW into the dealer for an oil change and new brakes. I couldn't wait for their service department and had to get into the office ASAP. They ended up giving me a brand new 2014 328i GT with 325 miles on the odometer as a loaner. This GT came with various...."M" bits from BMW's M parts bin. I was initially psyched to get this as a loaner as I was curious how the new BMWs compared to my generation. Long story short....I was extremely disappointed. The venerable 3-series has become...bloated. It's a big car (IMHO) compared to previous generations. Ride quality was excellent, however their new steering systems suck. Turning the steering wheel was the equivalent of sticking your index finger into a bowl of jello and swirling. I don't think I've ever driven an automobile where I felt so disconnected from it and the road.

    Closing the doors yielded the equivalent sound of slamming the door shut on a microwave oven. Gone is the nice, solid sound of a well-built automobile.

    The biggest disappointment was the driving modes. If memory serves me correctly I believe it came with "Eco-Tour, Comfort, Sport and Sport plus"....something along those lines. Of course, I immediately put it in Sport Plus. Considering that the 328 comes with a naturally aspirated inline-6, I didn't expect it to accelerate like my 335. The acceleration was ok, but nothing to write home about. The worst part about it was that the engine would rev with a lot of noise, but the speed of acceleration did not match the amount of racket coming from the engine. As soon as you shut the engine down and then start it back up, the car automatically defaults to Eco-Tour mode - which is the equivalent of trying to drive a Rickshaw on the highway. It was just....awful. I couldn't wait to pick up my 335 at the end of the day.

    Everything I've read in magazines and online indicates that the BMW faithful have also grown disappointed with the direction that BMW seems to be moving with their 3-series. If Cadillac continues to move in the direction their moving with the ATS, CTS and XTS, I have a feeling we'll be seeing the car magazines consistently sounding trumpets of praise for Cadillac over BMW - as long as we don't have any further unfortunate situations pop up like we do with the faulty ignition switches.
    As far as the acceleration is concerned on your loaner Bimmer 328, it might have been the turbo 4 cylinder which has excellent torque above 1700 rpm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    I can't really contribute much to the discussion regarding Porsche's GT3 engine bonfires other than that I have read that Porsche has agreed to replace the engines in every single one built thus far.

    As for Mary Barra, I met her briefly and sat in on an interview with her during the NAIAS event back in January of 2013 in Detroit. I was impressed with her and I'm confident that she'll do what's necessary. It's unfortunate that upon her promotion to CEO, she basically stepped right into this mess.

    Personally, I don't see Lincoln as a direct threat to Cadillac in my opinion. I've spent a lot of time in the seat of a 2013 Lincoln MKZ since brand new. (No, not mine.) It's a nice car. I like the styling, ergonomics, comfort and features. However, the car is just too big for my taste. It's also horrible on gas. I drive a 2008 BMW 335xi coupe equipped with BMW's twin-turbo charged, 300hp inline-6. Admittedly, I have a heavy foot as the forced induction is intoxicating on the highway. However, even with my heavy foot, I get 1.5 mpg better than the Lincoln MKZ with much less horsepower and a lighter-footed driver behind the wheel. (Both cars spend equivalent time on the highway vs. city.) Anyway, I digress....Lincoln's MKZ sales are in the toilet, and FLM is doing everything they can to promote this car with aggressive TV marketing and now 0% financing for 60 months. To the best of my knowledge, Cadillac hasn't had the same problems with the CTS - especially with the ATS and XTS contributing.

    Here is where my concern comes in: regardless of what others may think about the government bailing GM out of bankruptcy, I think it was the proverbial kick in the ass that GM needed to make them realize that they need to step it up a very big notch in order for their automobiles to be competitive in today's global automotive market. With car companies like Hyundai and Kia building really awesome cars (something I never thought I'd hear myself say...) with excellent warranty programs, reliability and styling for a lot less money, GM can no longer continue spitting out pieces of crap like they did in the seventies, eighties and a good part of the nineties.

    I think we've seen fantastic improvement in GM's overall quality since the bailout - Cadillac and Corvette are excellent examples. With that said - they CANNOT continue to produce products with suspicious / faulty components that have the potential to harm people. This issue with the faulty ignition switches should have been immediately investigated and nipped in the bud before it ever got as far as it did.

    I don't care how awesome your products are. I don't care if your automotive styling makes other car company's cars look like Yugos. I don't care if your automotive quality blows Mercedes, Rolls Royce or Bentley into the weeds. As soon as you start losing consumer confidence in your products due to faulty components such as these ignition switches - you start losing customers on a mass scale - and that's something that GM cannot afford now, or ever.

    Hopefully with the recent appointment of Jeff Boyer as Vice President of Global Vehicle Safety, this is just the first of many moves we'll see GM make in order to insure that a situation like the faulty ignition switches does not arise again.

    On a small side-note, I recently had to bring my BMW into the dealer for an oil change and new brakes. I couldn't wait for their service department and had to get into the office ASAP. They ended up giving me a brand new 2014 328i GT with 325 miles on the odometer as a loaner. This GT came with various...."M" bits from BMW's M parts bin. I was initially psyched to get this as a loaner as I was curious how the new BMWs compared to my generation. Long story short....I was extremely disappointed. The venerable 3-series has become...bloated. It's a big car (IMHO) compared to previous generations. Ride quality was excellent, however their new steering systems suck. Turning the steering wheel was the equivalent of sticking your index finger into a bowl of jello and swirling. I don't think I've ever driven an automobile where I felt so disconnected from it and the road.

    Closing the doors yielded the equivalent sound of slamming the door shut on a microwave oven. Gone is the nice, solid sound of a well-built automobile.

    The biggest disappointment was the driving modes. If memory serves me correctly I believe it came with "Eco-Tour, Comfort, Sport and Sport plus"....something along those lines. Of course, I immediately put it in Sport Plus. Considering that the 328 comes with a naturally aspirated inline-6, I didn't expect it to accelerate like my 335. The acceleration was ok, but nothing to write home about. The worst part about it was that the engine would rev with a lot of noise, but the speed of acceleration did not match the amount of racket coming from the engine. As soon as you shut the engine down and then start it back up, the car automatically defaults to Eco-Tour mode - which is the equivalent of trying to drive a Rickshaw on the highway. It was just....awful. I couldn't wait to pick up my 335 at the end of the day.

    Everything I've read in magazines and online indicates that the BMW faithful have also grown disappointed with the direction that BMW seems to be moving with their 3-series. If Cadillac continues to move in the direction their moving with the ATS, CTS and XTS, I have a feeling we'll be seeing the car magazines consistently sounding trumpets of praise for Cadillac over BMW - as long as we don't have any further unfortunate situations pop up like we do with the faulty ignition switches.
    Hey Rob I like your comments and the sincerity you expressed in them. I think the relevance placed on the bankruptcy giving GM the push it needed to make improvements is a little short sighted. The changes that went into the development of the new vehicles we are seeing in the marketplace now was something that began in the 2005 time frame when the direction was given to make every new product world class. There is no way GM could turn the quality story around in the short amount of time since the bankruptcy. It had to begin back when the products were being developed. Rick Wagoner provided the leadership to instill those changes in the organization and in fact told us it would take several years to accomplish. The reason for this was that we had to turn over all of the old products before we could begin to see the improvements both in quality and product capability in the new products. In a presentation to all of the GM team in January 2006 Rick said we were caught with a product line that was heavily laden with trucks, and that we would have to change that beginning right then and there. At that point the economy had not collapsed and Ford had hocked the farm including the brand name in order to obtain a huge pile of cash to see them through their remake. Rick acknowledged Ford had done that, but said we could make it by 2010 and be profitable by implementing his plan to remake all of the car lines, and reduce our focus and investment in trucks. Thus the midsize sport utilities were killed (Envoy/Trailblazer) as an example of one of the major changes in strategy. One area that took on huge importance was the cross over line up and you can see that in the products offered today as those vehicles began their journey in late 2007 and early 2008. When I saw these vehicles in clay they were stunning. Likewise the new Impala was designed in 2007 and looked very much like the current product, and a new Corvette was in the works. One that would have turned the sports car segment on its ear, a mid-engine Corvette that was awesome! The problem at the time was the constant erosion of the economy that kept getting worse every day, and the automotive business is a capital intense process. So vehicles programs were being delayed or cancelled constantly in order to save money to feed into the development of the Cruze and other small vehicles that would give GM high volume products to fill a void GM competitively lacked in the market place. In other words every cent was being directed toward what were considered to be essential products to the survival of the company. Once the economy hit free fall in mid-2008 all bets were off and the scramble was on to find resources that could provide capital. Unfortunately there was no money to be had and we all know how the story turned out after that. Likewise the issue with regard to the ignition switch was a problem that began in 2001 and grew exponentially as that product was added to more small cars that were developed in the days before the directive was issued for world class goals. We won't know who dropped the ball along the way until all of the information becomes available but anyone who thinks that there weren't concerns about this problem or that it was hidden is simply shooting from the hip because they don't know. GM would not have been profitable by 2010 is Wagoner, Lutz, and the leadership team in place hadn't set up the portfolio with the products we are seeing now. In fact the only product that didn't have their stamp of approval on it would be the this model of the Malibu and the previous one that Akerson pushed the development team to bring to market before it was totally ready. Certainly this doesn't tell the whole story but it should provide a taste of what brought GM to this point.

  6. #6
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    Gerry,

    I appreciate your response and insight. I agree that plans were probably in motion to improve the platforms before the bankruptcy, but I still can't help but wonder if the bankruptcy didn't "push" things along much quicker than originally deemed necessary. Regardless, that was then, and this is now.

    I want to share an interesting conversation I had with a group of friends tonight. I decided to blow the night off, and instead of working on my web sites like I do every night, go down to the local pub and meet a group of friends. We sat around discussing the latest news and current events and I made the unfortunate mistake of mentioning that I felt bad for Mary Barra, stepping into the position as CEO within the last few months and having to deal with the ignition switch fiasco.

    Wow, was I in for a surprise! Not only did I almost find myself crucified, but everyone in the pub was ready to crucify her as well stating that she knew about it, etc., etc. Regardless of whether or not she knew about it, or who knew about it at the top of the GM chain, what concerned me was the general opinion about GM that I received in a small pub, in one state of this country. This is what saddens me.

    I've seen great strides made within GM over the last decade. I've met with and interviewed some key people responsible for the development of the C7 Corvette, and some of those people have been within Corvette Development for several years. I see the enthusiasm, the passion and excitement for the product that they help bring to market, and their passion and enthusiasm in turn, excites me. And then we see something like an ignition switch across other multiple platforms causing severe issues like this...since 2001, and I can't help but ask, "how and why??" I see a company like Porsche aggressively address engine fires in one of their product lines - a product line that's currently in production - and yet, we're talking about GM products as far back as 2001 and this is just now being made public even though some people within GM and the NHTSA knew about it.

    When I graduated college....many moons ago, and was shopping around for a sports car - the Corvette drew me in. There was not another product within the GM lineup that interested me - other than a Trans Am maybe (we're talking early 1990s). It isn't until recently, that GM has really started to grab my attention with Cadillac and now Camaro. The Chevy Malibu and even the Impala is starting to grab my attention now that I'm seeing more and more of them on the road and had a chance to check them out at the local dealer. However, I have to ask myself: if I was ready to go trade my BMW in on a new GM product; be it Cadillac or an Impala, or a Camaro...am I possibly going to be at risk for something like an ignition switch failure down the road? If I'm having these thoughts/concerns, and I'm a GM fan, what are other people thinking that might be in the market and considering a GM product?

    GM has made such awesome strides and I can only hope that they address this issue and any future issues like it, as aggressively as possible in order to retain and increase consumer confidence. If my experience tonight in a tiny pub in one corner of the United States was any indication of the general sentiment across the U.S., I'm a little nervous.

    I will always shed some blood for the "bow-tie". All I ask is that GM does not allow that blood to be shed in vain.




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    ...ON...
    Quote Originally Posted by KANE View Post
    ...The Acadia/Travers...I owned one. The sunroof leaks are the stuff of legends... they leak and the water rolls into the birdcage..
    Maybe the engineers ran out of time and simply grabbed the designs of the '80 Corvette???

    ...OFF...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaineShark View Post
    I could build a nuke in my basement. They are actually very simple devices. And we have uranium in NH. I could mine it and refine it and build one. The science is simple. The engineering not overly complex.

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    GM Recall - Ignition Switches and Airbags:  Is the media portraying the whole picture? Scottsredvette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evolution1980 View Post
    ...ON...
    Maybe the engineers ran out of time and simply grabbed the designs of the '80 Corvette???

    ...OFF...
    Speaking of hijacked threads and seeing your post, it just dawned on me that Slyman's is only about 4.5 hours away from where I live now...........I see a road trip this spring.
    I don't like making plans for the day. The word "premeditated" is not useful when it gets thrown around a courtroom.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    Gerry,

    I appreciate your response and insight. I agree that plans were probably in motion to improve the platforms before the bankruptcy, but I still can't help but wonder if the bankruptcy didn't "push" things along much quicker than originally deemed necessary. Regardless, that was then, and this is now.

    I want to share an interesting conversation I had with a group of friends tonight. I decided to blow the night off, and instead of working on my web sites like I do every night, go down to the local pub and meet a group of friends. We sat around discussing the latest news and current events and I made the unfortunate mistake of mentioning that I felt bad for Mary Barra, stepping into the position as CEO within the last few months and having to deal with the ignition switch fiasco.

    Wow, was I in for a surprise! Not only did I almost find myself crucified, but everyone in the pub was ready to crucify her as well stating that she knew about it, etc., etc. Regardless of whether or not she knew about it, or who knew about it at the top of the GM chain, what concerned me was the general opinion about GM that I received in a small pub, in one state of this country. This is what saddens me.

    I've seen great strides made within GM over the last decade. I've met with and interviewed some key people responsible for the development of the C7 Corvette, and some of those people have been within Corvette Development for several years. I see the enthusiasm, the passion and excitement for the product that they help bring to market, and their passion and enthusiasm in turn, excites me. And then we see something like an ignition switch across other multiple platforms causing severe issues like this...since 2001, and I can't help but ask, "how and why??" I see a company like Porsche aggressively address engine fires in one of their product lines - a product line that's currently in production - and yet, we're talking about GM products as far back as 2001 and this is just now being made public even though some people within GM and the NHTSA knew about it.

    When I graduated college....many moons ago, and was shopping around for a sports car - the Corvette drew me in. There was not another product within the GM lineup that interested me - other than a Trans Am maybe (we're talking early 1990s). It isn't until recently, that GM has really started to grab my attention with Cadillac and now Camaro. The Chevy Malibu and even the Impala is starting to grab my attention now that I'm seeing more and more of them on the road and had a chance to check them out at the local dealer. However, I have to ask myself: if I was ready to go trade my BMW in on a new GM product; be it Cadillac or an Impala, or a Camaro...am I possibly going to be at risk for something like an ignition switch failure down the road? If I'm having these thoughts/concerns, and I'm a GM fan, what are other people thinking that might be in the market and considering a GM product?

    GM has made such awesome strides and I can only hope that they address this issue and any future issues like it, as aggressively as possible in order to retain and increase consumer confidence. If my experience tonight in a tiny pub in one corner of the United States was any indication of the general sentiment across the U.S., I'm a little nervous.

    I will always shed some blood for the "bow-tie". All I ask is that GM does not allow that blood to be shed in vain.
    This is what the old "suits" at GM did to the brand and hopefully the new "suits" are smarter and see that the old system was very short sighted and will never work in the long run. It is a burden that they have to carry if they are associated with GM in any way, and I cannot blame the public for not trusting them now either. I agree with you 100%, I want to believe that GM has turned the corner and will take care of their products and customers, but with their seriously ugly past it will take decades of change to finally turn it around and earn any customer trust. I just hope that they have the time available to them to do it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexmate View Post
    The changes that went into the development of the new vehicles we are seeing in the marketplace now was something that began in the 2005 time frame when the direction was given to make every new product world class. There is no way GM could turn the quality story around in the short amount of time since the bankruptcy. It had to begin back when the products were being developed. Rick Wagoner provided the leadership to instill those changes in the organization and in fact told us it would take several years to accomplish. The reason for this was that we had to turn over all of the old products before we could begin to see the improvements both in quality and product capability in the new products.
    It's really hard for a large company that has such deep and intricate variables to turn on on a dime.

    I'd also agree that while the plans were drawn up long before... I could see the impact of other things in the market and the economy also reinforcing decisions around improving the commitment to quality. Moreover... there were/are likely changes in culture at GM that are/were taking place too. The outputs of products and strategic decisions of GM reflect its culture.

    That may be where people in the public are struggling. With so many companies that have fierce reputations for standing behind a product by getting in front of an issue with it, I could completely see the frustration folks might have from the consumer point of view. People expect folks to do this and be aggressive in quality. And this isn't new... Ford went through a lot of backlash in the 70s and 80s post-Pinto with quality issues, the calculation of cost of quality versus payouts on fatalities, and other problems. Toyota had this problem too recently.

    Sometimes the emotional decisions are the most important for perception. It is a mess financially for Porsche to clean up their problems- but they are doing it not just because they should- but also because their customer base is loyal and they recognize that if they don't they'll have a mess down the road. It's the trade off between short term loss (recalls) and long term profit (brand-loyal customers).


    But to tie it all back to the topic... the Vette versus the Viper... price, quality, and value are what's driving the decision to buy or not buy. Right now, the new Vette is a tremendous value given its quality, performance, and innovation.

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  11. #11
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    I've done a little more research online over the last couple of days. It's interesting what you find when you do your own research rather than just listening to over-dramatization and BS that the media loves to spew out.

    Has anyone wondered why the NHTSA was requested to testify in DC as well? The media seems to gloss over that in their news reports and instead, focus on Mary Barra and GM as becoming the next "Death Star".

    Don't get me wrong: I'm not confirming or denying any fault on GM's side, but the NHTSA, in my opinion isn't without fault as well. I ran across this last night:

    NHTSA, according to the memo, also declined to investigate into the faulty ignition switches in 2007 and 2010.

    In February 2005, [GM] engineers, according to documents, considered increasing or changing the ignition switch “torque effort,” but were advised by the ignition switch engineer that it is “close to impossible to modify the present ignition switch” as the switch is “very fragile and doing any further changes will lead to mechanical and/or electrical problems.”

    In the end, engineers did investigate a fix. But a month later, officials decided to take “no action.” The main reasons cited for the decision were “lead-time for all solutions is too long,” “tooling cost and piece price are too high,” and none of the solutions seems to fully countermeasure the possibility of the key being turned during driving.

    A number of accidents from 2005-2007 in Chevrolet Cobalts where the ignition switch was switched from “run” prompted NHTSA and GM to discuss the issue in 2007.

    A PowerPoint presentation prepared by NHTSA in November 2007 said its review was prompted by 29 complaints, 4 fatal crashes, and 14 field reports.

    During a briefing with committee staff, NHTSA officials explained the panel did "not identify any discernible trend and decided not to pursue a more formal investigation."

    In 2005, NHTSA started investigating a fatal crash in a 2005 Chevrolet Cobalt in which the frontal airbag system did not deploy. During a briefing with government officials, NHTSA officials explained that the panel did not identify any “discernible trend and decided not to pursue a more formal investigation.”

    Even though NHTSA declined to issue a recall, GM opened another investigation into the ignition resulting in a redesign of the ignition key for model year 2010 Cobalt in April 2006.

    Following at least one other reported accident in 2009, GM and NHTSA continued to investigate the Cobalt and other vehicles that may have had the ignition switches installed.

    In 2010, NHTSA once again declined to open an official investigation following a 2009 crash in which a 2006 Chevrolet Cobalt accident where the airbags failed to deploy.

    GM continued to investigate the ignition switches through January 2014.

    NHTSA administrator David Friedman testified after Barra for about an hour and a half. Thirteen panel members spoke during the hearing, compared to more than 20 with Barra.

    [David] Friedman, who became acting administrator [of the NHTSA] May 15, said the government safety watchdog believes GM withheld information regarding the vehicles. NHTSA, at least twice since the vehicles launched, did not open an official investigation into the vehicles even after numerous fatal accidents occurred without the airbag inflating.
    As far as I'm concerned, the media needs to stop painting GM as the Evil Empire. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is just as much at fault here. In my opinion, an official investigation should be conducted into the NHTSA and the ability, or lack there-of, to conduct their own investigations.

    When an automotive manufacturer goes to the NHTSA with a question or concern over a product, and the NHTSA conducts their own investigation and repeatedly concludes "the panel did not identify any 'discernible trend and decided not to pursue a more formal investigation'", then fault and blame should not rest solely on the automotive manufacturer.

    According to the information above, GM continued to work with the NHTSA for several years investigating these crashes and yet, the NHTSA declined to open an official investigation.

    Attention: Mr. David Friedman: So over the course of nearly a decade, GM continued to come to you with "incomplete data"? Interesting. I'm looking forward to the results of further investigation into this issue, because according to preliminary information in the official documentation submitted (and linked below at the very bottom), the NHTSA isn't smelling all rosey and beautiful right now.

    Source: Official: Documents paint 'unsettling picture' of GM, NHTSA ignition switch recall | MLive.com
    Source: http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...rra_durin.html

    Official document submitted to the committee: http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IF/IF...0401-SD002.pdf




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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post

    Attention: Mr. David Friedman: So over the course of nearly a decade, GM continued to come to you with incomplete data? Interesting. I'm looking forward to the results of further investigation into this issue, because according to preliminary information in the official documentation submitted (and linked below at the very bottom), the NHTSA isn't smelling all rosey and beautiful right now.

    Source: Official: Documents paint 'unsettling picture' of GM, NHTSA ignition switch recall | MLive.com
    Source: 'Old GM' haunts CEO Mary Barra during congressional hearing on ignition switch recalls | MLive.com

    Official document submitted to the committee: http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IF/IF...0401-SD002.pdf
    Your findings quite possibly warrant a thread unto itself rather than to be eventually buried in here...

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