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  • Fahrfrompassin': VW cheats EPA standards
  • Fahrfrompassin': VW cheats EPA standards
  • Fahrfrompassin': VW cheats EPA standards
  • Fahrfrompassin': VW cheats EPA standards

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  1. #1
    Moderator KANE's Avatar
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    Default Fahrfrompassin': VW cheats EPA standards

    1982 Dark Blue Corvette
    Crossfire Injection | .496"/.495" Cam | AFR Eliminator Heads | EBL | 3.73
    0-60mph in four and a half seconds



    1995 Trans Am
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    1982 Chevrolet Corvette , 350 2k RPM Stall Converter + Updgraded Transmission + Governor Set For 5,450rpm Shifts 3.73 Code 42 Dark Mettalic Blue with a twist

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't be surprised to learn a lot of performance cars are smog legal until the pedal is depressed.

    Whoosh, and blur
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  3. #3
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    The EPA is a JOKE. We shouldn't even HAVE it.

    EPA isn't an enumerated power.

  4. #4
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    I've been employed in the automotive sector for decades. In plain English, literally the EPA has made engine design hell.
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  5. #5
    Member LLC5's Avatar
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    "Despite the seriousness of the violation, the EPA said VW will be given "a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs," including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts."



    Hell, I wouldn't give them a reasonable amount of time if they knowingly altered the federal emission standards after the EPA testing phase.

    Fine them now and get the money up front.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpic View Post
    I've been employed in the automotive sector for decades. In plain English, literally the EPA has made engine design hell.
    Yeah, they mess up pretty much everything they touch. Look at the "wetlands" b.s. , and harassing the oil and coal industries.

    ...and don't forget the catalytic converter. Swapping carbon compounds for sulfides. So, instead of putting out CO2 and CO, your car emits H2S, and H2SO4. That's SULFURIC ACID!
    Guess what??? D.C. was BUILT on a swamp. WETLANDS. I say they need to enforce their own regs and restore D.C. to swampland or GTFO of our lives.
    Last edited by patriotpa; 09-19-15 at 06:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    patriotpa,
    Although far from all good, the EPA isn't all bad.

    One of the good things they required was diesel puff limiting.
    The old way with diesel engines was a puff of black smoke when the engine was floored. It was caused by the fuel system's delivery being faster than the turbo's spool up time.
    As more fuel was dumped into the engine before the turbo spooled up a large puff of black smoke came out of the exhaust. Puff limiting delays fuel delivery until sufficient boost to burn it is reached.

    Today, we have power, economy and clean engines. Or we have our cake and enjoy it.

    I'll side with LLC5, as VW willfully and unethically ignored the law, so they need to pay the price. However, as our politician's ethics are more lacking than VW's, I doubt VW will pay the price.

    That being said, I am not a fan of the EPA for the reasons you mentioned and more.
    As their little game showed they lacked the engineering skills to deliver what people paid for, screw them.
    Whoosh, and blur

  8. #8
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    More EPA useless waste and funding of pseudoscience:

    Cow flatulence studies (They're on the Global Warming bandwagon and blame some of it on cow farts of all things)

    Riddled with fraud and abuse of power
    EPA Fraud? You Won?t Believe What Investigators Revealed About These Bonus Checks | EPA Abuse

    Gassing people:

    Horrifying Report: U.S. Government Gasses 81 Citizens | EPA Abuse

    Yeah...we really need this agency.
    ....like we need a close shave with a wood chipper!

  9. #9
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    At the end of the day, the reality is that still doesn't change what VW did.

    They lied so their vehicle passed emissions. Lying is not ethical or acceptable in any way, shape or form.

    That does not mean I support the EPA's bull manure because that is not what this discussion is about. As a former engine design engineer, I have real reasons to dislike the EPA. However, that doesn't mean I'll ignore the one thing they got right out of the 500 they got wrong.
    VW doesn't get a free pass because 99% of the time the EPA is a crock of you know what.

    My daughter received a check from John Deere because they lied about their fancy zero turn mower's HP. JD stated the zero turn mower had X horsepower; the reality was it had less. JD sent her a check because they lied. JD really makes some good equipment; however they lied. and paid the price.

    The short form is I dislike liars and the EPA.




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  10. #10
    Moderator KANE's Avatar
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    A law is a law- no doubt that it is important that folks follow them.

    I do think aside from the undercurrent of anyone thinking a law doesn't apply to them but everyone else... I'd ask were there performance gains- and were the impacts that bad?

    The reason I ask... is that if creating less of a negative impact is the intended end result- was this a case of arcane law and the end result met the intended goals even if the mechanism didn't?? I'm not talking about the law but- about results.


    There are lots of regulations that we seem to just dogpile more regs on. I don't think anyone really knows anymore how many are in place, which ones apply, which are outdated, and which ones should be removed.


    It's a mess.
    1982 Dark Blue Corvette
    Crossfire Injection | .496"/.495" Cam | AFR Eliminator Heads | EBL | 3.73
    0-60mph in four and a half seconds



    1995 Trans Am
    1 of 1 Trans Am | 100% documented | RPOs 48U, MN6, and GU6
    1982 Chevrolet Corvette , 350 2k RPM Stall Converter + Updgraded Transmission + Governor Set For 5,450rpm Shifts 3.73 Code 42 Dark Mettalic Blue with a twist

  11. #11
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    Kane,
    There are so many dumb laws there is a website: Dumb Laws, Stupid Laws: We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws!

    Be proud as Kentucky fares a lot better than North Carolina.
    Whoosh, and blur

  12. #12
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    I'm no fan of the EPA, but without them we may still be driving vehicles with carb's and getting 10-12 mpg. With the EPA we have the cleanest, most reliable, highest horsepower and torque engines that we have ever seen. The EPA has unwittingly given vehicle owners the fastest (through emissions and mpg regulations that require high efficiency powertrains) and most reliable (with extended mileage and time emission warranty's on key emission components) automobiles in history.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLC5 View Post
    I'm no fan of the EPA, but without them we may still be driving vehicles with carb's and getting 10-12 mpg. With the EPA we have the cleanest, most reliable, highest horsepower and torque engines that we have ever seen. The EPA has unwittingly given vehicle owners the fastest (through emissions and mpg regulations that require high efficiency powertrains) and most reliable (with extended mileage and time emission warranty's on key emission components) automobiles in history.
    Don't confuse the EPA with design engineers.

    EPA doesn't DO anything except fine, persecute and enforce.

  14. #14
    Member LLC5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriotpa View Post
    Don't confuse the EPA with design engineers.

    EPA doesn't DO anything except fine, persecute and enforce.


    I'm not. Believe me without the EPA the design engineers would never have been told by the manufacturers to search for efficiency and reliability as they do now, mostly because of the costs involved. The down side to this efficiency and reliability is the cost, which is of course is passed on to the consumer.
    Last edited by LLC5; 09-20-15 at 01:33 PM. Reason: missing word....
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriotpa View Post
    Don't confuse the EPA with design engineers.


    True. However in business it isn't easy to get a multi-million dollar appropriation to do a clean sheet of paper design. Tooling, purchasing new casting patterns, new forging dies, machines, inspection equipment and more have never been a cheap date.

    In addition to what LLC5 mentioned; today exotic materials are used. Materials that would have never been selected, compacted graphite and expensive high temperature alloys are two examples.

    Quite often what most end users believe is a new design isn't really new; it is a modification of an existing product. Increasing the stroke adds material to the deck, increasing the bore may be accomplished by siamesed cylinder liners; the funds required for a new cylinder block cast tooling are anything but inexpensive.

    Same as many things; the EPA's usefulness has worn thin and to justify their continued existence; they have crossed a line. On the other hand they've done some good also.

    Edit:
    I missed LLC5's post or I would not have gone on about it. The point is simple; the money spent for new "stuff" comes from the profit pot.
    Whoosh, and blur

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