• Time to buy a lift!  Which one/what type?
  • Time to buy a lift!  Which one/what type?
  • Time to buy a lift!  Which one/what type?
  • Time to buy a lift!  Which one/what type?

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  1. #31
    Member IH2LOSE's Avatar
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    You know last year at a differnt forum there was alot of discution on lifts.A lot of links to different lifts and alot of folks stating why one lift was better then the other,Take your time sift thru the compainys and youll see there are only a few lift manufactorers and alot lot of lift's that look the same as the other.Keep that in mind when purchasing a lift if a guy says the acme lift is no good see if acme purchase it from the same manufactoroer that you are buying ,to sum it up alot of the same lifts are on the market but with a different sticker on it.

  2. #32
    SeaLawyer
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    Default Let's cut to the chase...

    Good point Larry. I looked through all of those threads, and all the designs after you guys started me hunting a few days ago. You have the Eagle SS-7000?

    Eagle SS-7000, Pro-Park7, Bend Pak PF-7000, Stinger ST, Double-Park DP-7 are all the same design - the so-called "partially enclosed column." The Eagle and the Pro-Park look like IDENTICAL LIFTS! Only the logo looks different. (That and the $1000 price difference!!) Short of comparing all the measurements, it's difficult to tell. Neither Eagle nor DirectLift claim to manufacture the lifts.

    Originally posted by IH2LOSE
    Actually I have a eagle 4 post lift.As I use it more and more I think I could be built safer.
    Anything other than the lock VISIBILITY with the Eagle that you think could be safer? There are some issues with that design that concern me, namely the relatively small surface area of the locks/potential for failure from impact...

    Autolifters' and Backyard Buddy's are the same design - the so-called outside slider. They each manufacture they're own version of it though. Aside from the pinch-point issue (which I think is legitimate, but also still an issue on almost any other lift), I think the inherent stability of this lift makes the design a sound one. Again, check out BB's online video, and AL's 'safety' stuff -- even discounting it somewhat as marketing, the physics of the analysis are sound.

    Perfect Park 7000 calls their design the "fully enclosed column"... As previously noted, this is the same lift involved in the now-famous collapse... Looking at their website, all their 'studies' regarding their superior design are from a company called 3D Engineering in Springfield, MO... Who the hell are they? I'll trust ANSI anyday over them.

    As far as the other types of lifts referred to in the last couple posts, I'd personally prefer Scissor Lift to the Kwik Lift -- true you can't get under it, but at least you can take the wheels off for brake/suspension stuff. The Kwik Lift I don't really get - I get almost that much clearance with jackstands... If I wanted to use the creeper all day, I wouldn't bother getting a lift at all.

    Originally posted by allcoupedup
    Anyone have any feedback on the Bend-pak lift?
    I saw some stuff on the web about Bend-Pak having had some quality control problems in the past. Don't know if those have been resolved. Interestingly, I originally was intrigued by the BP HD-12SS because of the 12,000lbs capacity for the price, but it needs to bolted down. I'd like to be able to move mine around. The PF-7000P (can't tell if it's the same lift as the Pro-Park 7) does not require bolting down.

  3. #33
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    I would agree with your assement of the 4 post lifts you stated, I belive that they are all made by the same manufacturer! I know of at least 3 other lifts that would appear to be exactly the same as well.
    I bought a Direct-Lift Pro Park7, and the first page of the instructions says "Thanks for buying your new Eagle lift" I bought a Pro Park for $1995 including drip trays, casters, and jack bridge, and do not believe you will find a better value for the money then these guys! I heeded John Hinkley's advice and bought the aluminum ramps, and was glad that I did. The steel ones have been taking up space in my shop for almost a year and they are incredibly heavy! One of these days I will find a project that I can use the steel for and I will cut them up and get them out of my way.
    Regards, John McGraw

  4. #34
    Member IH2LOSE's Avatar
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    My assesment of what could be better.A flag,A highley visable sign that the lock is realised.What is so important about the lock?

    Well as long as the car is going down straight and even its semi safe.But say a lock does not realise the the lift continues to go down with one corner still up.Now the weight is being held up differently by each post the weight wants to go away from the highest point.the legs want to kick inward.the cables could go slack and not stay in the pulley to be raised up again.Take your time to study these units and there design is only good for it being supported equally on all 4 post's.

    The safest way to have one is with a lock then when it realise's fully it would engage a hydrylic valve is series with all the other locks and saftey hydrylic valves,if all the locks dont hit there hydrolic saftey valve then the ram would not be able to lower.

    Well there is a lot of would do to increase the saftey of the unit but I will leave that up to the engineers.I am sure they set out to build an affordable storage moveable lift to whitch they have succedded in doing maybe there next goal will be a safer affordable lift.

  5. #35
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    Larry,
    Your analysis of the normal failure mode of such lifts is right on point! The number one thing that an owner can do to avoid such problems is the regular attention to proper adjustment of the locks! If you assure that all the locks go over the fixed blocks a the same time then most of the problems are resolved. Once you get used to a lift, you will listen for the distinct clacks of each lock going over the block. I check my lock adjustment at least every month and allways pull the release handle all the way to the column. If a lock was not clear of the block, I would not be able to get full travel on the release handle. I am not sure that you can make such a device completely idiot proof, and certianly not at a cost that most of us could afford!
    Regards, John McGraw

  6. #36
    SeaLawyer
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    Default The perfect complement to my 4-post...

    John,

    I saw your post in the Stables about the Wayne-Dalton garage door opener. I had no idea such a device existed! How AWESOME!

    http://www.wayne-dalton.com/residential/DirectDrive.asp

    This is a must have for me, since on the house I'm building, the 3rd bay has a 13ft ceiling and is where I'm putting the lift, but the door on that bay will be a single car 8ft door. A normal opener for that door would have directly limited how high I can lift the car... Not this one! Thanks for posting that!

    Vaughn

  7. #37
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    That is one slick opener is'nt it? That is the key issue for this tye of closer, you can close a high-lift door with it! In order to close a high-lift door with a standard closer, you would need to extend the door up another section so that the closer would work. This is the only thing that has kept me from high-lifting the door on my parking garage. This garage has a fairly new screwdrive closer on it and I am unwilling to scrap it right now to High-lift the doors.
    With the constant moving of my lift from one garage to the other, I will probably break down and do these doors as well before long!
    Regards, John McGraw




















    wi

  8. #38
    SeaLawyer
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    Default ANOTHER good point..

    At first I was only thinking of the extra clearance I'd get when raising the car with the door CLOSED...

    Since there's no opener mounted to the ceiling, ostensibly, the door really COULD track pretty much flush with the ceiling! SWEET!

    So here's the question I suppose:

    Doing a high lift door essentially requires adding the track extensions ala John Z. pic, right? I suppose that would require going with WD's Doormaster model vice their iDrive model, since the iDrive model has an appendage that comes down from the drive to the top of the door to lock it. It looks like the locking arm can be lengthened a little bit, but not to a length of the 2+ft of gap as in John's pic... I kinda like the iDrive better though. I guess the other SLIGHT advantage of the Doormaster vs. the iDrive is that is that the Doormaster requires less clearance above the torsion rod, therefore the distance between the ceiling and the open door would be just a hair larger than the diameter of the torsion rod assembly... OR could the door actually sit flush if the torsion rod assembly were mounted within the radiused corner of the door track?? Once the bulk of the door turns that corner, how does WD's device (either model) open the door the rest of the way? Is it just momentum that carries the remaining load?

  9. #39
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    The door is opened by the motor turning the torsion tube which winds the cables on the drum. The door is lifted from the bottom of the door, so it will continue to lift until the bottom of the door passes the cable drum and it never will. In the down direction, the springs are adjusted so that the door is allways heavier than the the upward force exerted by the springs. The drive motor does very little work, since the door is almost perfectly balanced at all times.
    Regards, John McGraw

  10. #40
    SeaLawyer
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    Okay, so I wonder if you COULD mount the opener/torsion bar a hair lower or inline with the horizontal track such that the horizontal track could literally mount flush with the ceiling. THAT would be the ultimate use of space!

  11. #41
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    unfortunately, you can not. The torsion tube can not be lowered, and even if it could, you would find that the door extends several inches above the track. I think that about the closest you can run the tracks to the ceiling is about 6 inches.
    Regards, John McGraw

  12. #42
    Time to buy a lift!  Which one/what type?
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    My torsion spring shaft is 4" from the ceiling, the horizontal door tracks are 9" from the ceiling, and the anchor end of the operator track is 1-1/2" from the ceiling (12'). It's an 8' door, with an extra 24" section added (not visible from the outside) to get the lift/pull geometry correct for the operator.


    John
    '67 Convertible

  13. #43
    SeaLawyer
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    Default Thanks for the info guys!

    Gotta say - this forum is AWESOME!

    A few updates:

    The swing of my garage door above the track is about 4.5 inches. That's really the only limiting factor when using the Wayne-Dalton opener. JohnZ, your torsion spring is lower because of the opener rail. Without that, you can pretty mount the torsion spring flush with the ceiling (or close to flush), which I agree JohnM will give me a door track spacing of about 6". I'm getting the taller lift (AL's M80) so the extra 6" of clearance will be REALLY nice!

    I think I've found a cheap solution (relatively) to my rolling air jack dilemma. Check this out:

    http://www.mytoolstore.com/omega/18122.html

    Two of the auto-return ones wired (with air) 'in parallel' on the sliding jack tray should do the job quite nicely! Not bad for under $500!

    Or for a bit more money (and work), two of these:

    http://www.mytoolstore.com/omega/21032.html

    and just build a housing to hold both the lift arms and have one very similar to BB's $1700 job for less than half!

  14. #44
    Member IH2LOSE's Avatar
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    sealawyer

    No what you have shown is not the same the rolling air jacks.If your getting the air assisted hydrylic you mine as well just get the regular pump style.(that what I have also) my partner has a 4 post lift with the rolling air jacks and there great.he pulls the jacks all the way to the front,drives the car on the lift,rolls his jacks into place,places a dense styrofoam under the lifting points for the car and up it goes and stays that way so he has no flat spotting on his tires.

  15. #45
    SeaLawyer
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    True - because it's air-assist not fully hydraulic. I've got plenty of compressed air, and dropping a quick connect wouldn't be a big deal... Am I missing something? What BRAND of rolling air jack does your partner have? BB's is $1700. Even that seems high. Every other one that I found was $2500+!!

    My other option would be to fabricate something fully hydraulic using something like this:

    http://www.hydraulic-ram.co.uk/single_acting.html

    with some jack arms...

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