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Thread: Renegade

  1. #76
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    Default Renegade

    Your point about the mixture getting weaker and leaner is an important one.

    The ECM and stock calibration are not going to meet the demands of a a larger cam and better heads. For one, the spark table for smog era iron heads is not the right one for aluminum heads.

    The VE tables would also be wrong for a performer cam.

    In other words, the OE calibration is not capable of supporting all the changes you've made. I had the same issue two years ago.

    I stepped up to a programmable ECM in May 2014. It's the way to go if you modify a crossfire system.


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    1982 Dark Blue Corvette
    Crossfire Injection | .496"/.495" Cam | AFR Eliminator Heads | EBL | 3.73
    0-60mph in four and a half seconds



    1995 Trans Am
    1 of 1 Trans Am | 100% documented | RPOs 48U, MN6, and GU6
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    1982 Chevrolet Corvette , 350 2k RPM Stall Converter + Updgraded Transmission + Governor Set For 5,450rpm Shifts 3.73 Code 42 Dark Mettalic Blue with a twist

  2. #77
    Moderator KANE's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    So, again, if you have a stock or mildly modifed 82 or 84 Crossfire motor, my advice is to take what you may "hear" about the Renegade with a grain of salt until someone posts some unbiased, comprehensive test data.

    On the other hand, if you've got an 82 or 84 which has an engine which is significantly modifed and you want to retain the 2xTBI set-up, the Renegade might be a suitable alternative to the stock intake manifold.
    I'm going to build on Hib's post with some of my experiences.

    First of all, I'm not a shop... or a professional tuner... or anything else. I am just a regular guy and cars are a passion and a pastime. I purchased a Renegade because it was the only intake on the market that might be up to the task of flowing more air than a ported OE intake.

    To Hib's point, I think a lot of people are looking for the Renegade to be a magic pill for the '82 performance. As in, "just do this one small thing and you'll uncap 400hp". Well, it's not like that in real life. Engines are systems and only as good as the symphony of components that make it up as a unit.

    I don't have dyno slips, but I do have real world, real-time datalogs that come from the car's ECM connected to my laptop that records everything from run time to AFR, MPH, sensor data, and point in time calibration table data.

    Here's the three configurations I have recorded- and results:
    Stock heads, stock FPR, Stock TBs, + Renegade, + Comp Cam .425" IN / .440" EX, 2.87 rear end = 0-60mph in 7.8 seconds
    Stock heads, + 20psi VAFPR, +1.9 TBs, + Renegade, + Erson Cam .465" IN / .488" EX, 2.87 rear end= 0-60mph in 6 seconds
    Stock heads, + 20psi VAFPR, +1.9 TBs, + Renegade, + Erson Cam .465" IN / .488" EX , + 3.73 rear end = 0-60mph in 5.2 seconds (best time)

    In all of these tests, the ambient temperature outside was between 80-90 degrees, in the summer, and after at least 30 minutes of total run time in near identical conditions.

    Through the 200+ data logs I have, I can see the Renegade do its job. The engine flows pretty consistent from 65 grams a second at 1,600rpm to a maximum of 197 grams a second at 5,600rpm- and see no loss in KPAs under WOT from 4,900-5,600rpm.

    My cam and heads are good to my peak HP at 5,300rpm- so I don't have any data above 5,600rpm on engine behavior for KPAs or GMs Sec.

    I think it does what I need it to do for my modified engine. To Hib's point... it does help a modified engine out and the intake is no longer the weakest link.

    Attached is a graphic created with real time data from two previous logs- one as a baseline (.425/.440) and the other as a more current log (.465/.488)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails compare-jpg  
    1982 Dark Blue Corvette
    Crossfire Injection | .496"/.495" Cam | AFR Eliminator Heads | EBL | 3.73
    0-60mph in four and a half seconds



    1995 Trans Am
    1 of 1 Trans Am | 100% documented | RPOs 48U, MN6, and GU6
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    1982 Chevrolet Corvette , 350 2k RPM Stall Converter + Updgraded Transmission + Governor Set For 5,450rpm Shifts 3.73 Code 42 Dark Mettalic Blue with a twist

  3. #78
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    Default UKVETTEHEAD : Renegade Manifold

    [QUOTE=KANE;1181533]Like any part, it might need some massaging here and there.

    I have a Renegade and it's been a great intake aside form a few small details here and there.

    Here are some of my thoughts...
    - Plenum Lid: I purchased a huge sheet of gasket material and I made my own gasket for the plenum lid. I wasn't keen on using a bead of RTV.

    - Oil pressure sending unit: I have a 45* fitting on mine and I shaped the brass with a Dremel to fit it.

    - The temp sending unit for the dash is in the head if I recall.
    Thanks for the above comments. making a gasket is the best way to go I think but did yours run OK afterwards ? Regarding the fan sensor, the only ones I have are for the Anti-Knock which is below the RH exhaust manifold, the oil temp sensor on the rear of the block near the oil filter and the water temp sensor for the gauge on the LH Clhead below the exhaust manifold. Not forgetting the temp sensor for the ECU which in my case is in a modified thermostat housing as my aluminium heads don't have a large enough tapped hole to accept the sensor. This leads me to think that the overtime signal is somehow generated in the ECU. The plot thickens as they say!!!

    Hope that helps!!!

  4. #79
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UKVETTEHEAD View Post
    Thanks for the above comments. making a gasket is the best way to go I think but did yours run OK afterwards ? Regarding the fan sensor, the only ones I have are for the Anti-Knock which is below the RH exhaust manifold, the oil temp sensor on the rear of the block near the oil filter and the water temp sensor for the gauge on the LH Clhead below the exhaust manifold. Not forgetting the temp sensor for the ECU which in my case is in a modified thermostat housing as my aluminium heads don't have a large enough tapped hole to accept the sensor. This leads me to think that the overtime signal is somehow generated in the ECU. The plot thickens as they say!!!
    Here is a schematic of the pins used on the 84 ECM harness. I don't see a pin for the fan.

    The knock sensor should be in the block... above the oil pan... on the passenger side in a water jacket fitting. I am assuming that's what you mean by below the exhaust manifold.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1984-corvette-5-7l-cfi-ecm-jpg  
    1982 Dark Blue Corvette
    Crossfire Injection | .496"/.495" Cam | AFR Eliminator Heads | EBL | 3.73
    0-60mph in four and a half seconds



    1995 Trans Am
    1 of 1 Trans Am | 100% documented | RPOs 48U, MN6, and GU6
    1982 Chevrolet Corvette , 350 2k RPM Stall Converter + Updgraded Transmission + Governor Set For 5,450rpm Shifts 3.73 Code 42 Dark Mettalic Blue with a twist

  5. #80
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    Default Missing sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by KANE View Post
    Here is a schematic of the pins used on the 84 ECM harness. I don't see a pin for the fan.

    The knock sensor should be in the block... above the oil pan... on the passenger side in a water jacket fitting. I am assuming that's what you mean by below the exhaust manifold.
    Now with better access and light, all is revealed and yes, you were correct, the knock sensor is in the block just forward of the starter motor and what I thought was the knock sensor is in fact the fan sensor. Thanks for your help.
    Cheers
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  6. #81
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    Default

    [QUOTE=UKVETTEHEAD;1181532]
    Quote Originally Posted by 73-81 BST View Post
    anybody try this intake yet?.....

    Yes , I fitted one to my 82 collectors and the engine wouldn't run above 2000rpm. A rolling road session revealed that the fuel mixture was becoming progressively weaker as rpm increased. In fact, there was so much more air than fuel thanks to the better porting of the Renegade. To my knowledge there is no way to increase fuel flow from the Rochester TBIs without grief somewhere else. I refitted the original manifold back on and all is now good. I had previously fitted a Performer cam and Aluminium heads. The car is very sharp now especially low down and I will not look for any more power for the time being at least.
    The renegade is not that well made, the plenum top is retained by countersunk screws which do not seal well, there is a cut out for the oil pressure sender unit brass fitting at the rear of the engine but on my manifold the cut out out was too small and I had to rework it in order to get the assembly to fit the block. The take offs for the heater connections are wrong and adaptors have to be used or specially made If there were to be a way to make the manifold work it work then it would be probably be worth doing I think. It is stored away for the time being but if anyone is interested in it let me know.
    Lastly, does anyone know how the auxiliary cooling fan on this model gets it's engine temperature signal as I can find no additional sensor anywhere for it ? Thanks.
    Yes the Renegade lid is retained by SS countersunk screws and IMO it seals up fine, always has negative pressure. The only time the seal could be stressed would be during a backfire.
    I also had to make some minor adjustments at the sending unit as u mentioned but never had issues with heater connections. My biggest issue was to machine off the rocker covers from front to rear on an angle to make fit. And on the angle because I had to save the gasket sealing surface.
    I couldn't find the temperature sensor for the auxiliary cooling fan either and its not in my AIM. It's right to the rear of the dipstick and above the exhaust manifold, brass with 2 wires. The other end connector is in with the A/C pump connector.
    Last edited by charliebates; 06-16-18 at 09:55 AM.

  7. #82
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    Default

    I just went through this entire thread, gotta say it was amusing. I will ask this though since it is relate to the renegade. I have been waiting a few years watching to see what would happen and how long this product would last. So far I have seen this on sites such as summit, what I would like to know is how close will I get to porting my own plenum can compare the flow with the renegade, if it is close enough to handle almost 400hp then well why not but worth a shop in the dark.

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