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Thread: Renegade

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    "nelson84" posted to another forum on this site, maybe a year or so ago, that "Super Chevy" magazine was going to publish a story.

    How 'bout it "nelson84"? That article has to have been published by now. Can you post a copy of the article?
    Oh I'm still around, just forgot about this thread since I don't come here much. Yes, I am one of the owners of DCS, but I thought you knew that from previous posts of mine, although it may not have been as obvious back then and i didn't want to appear that I was trying to sell stuff here, which I'm not nor my intent.

    The article you speak of didn't pan out with Super Chevy magazine and they decided to drop the CFI Camaro project for now that we were going to help them with. The associate publisher, Joe Rode over at SC (I'm sure you know him) flew out to see us to check out what we were doing with CFI. When he saw what we doing along with the manifold project he was very impressed. According to Joe at that time "The new manifold was probably one of the most significant things to come out in the automotive CF world in a long time since nobody had ever done anything with the CF before". Actually, we kind of blew that comment off since the project was so new back then and we were having a lot of issues just trying to get the pattern made properly. The only thing we had made back then was a fully functional proto type that we had done extensive testing with on various CF motors. The Camaro project idea was his and came about after his visit with us. The story is true and feel free to contact Joe via email or phone and ask about it and us if you like.

    As far as doing a comparison before and after goes. We have already done that with our own testing and know the results. We were going to do a comparison between a 84 with a ported manifold and ours on EFI/CFI's 84 vette, but things changed a bit in my life and my partners and it didn't happen which was rather disappointing form our end. EFI/CFI as also passed away recently, so it won't happen for sure now nor are we going to entertain anything like that in the near future. We have a ton of other things to get done before we get back to that type of thing and we are in no hurry.

    We are in the process of having another foundry pour our castings and are trying to work out a deal that works for both parties, we'll see how that pans out and keep everyone posted about that on our site. We hope to get all this accomplished soon since we have other company deals in the works.

    I hope this cover most areas that you are curious about and hopefully not too disappointing. Cheers!

  2. #32
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    As far as doing a comparison before and after goes. We have already done that with our own testing and know the results.
    So, is there some reason you won't share those results with the Corvette community that has been requesting them for so long?

    I must say that your marketing strategy is one I'm unfamiliar with. Okay, I admit I was going to say bizarre but thought that may sound too harsh.

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    Buccaneer, Truthfully, I really admire a grassroots effort like the one you are a part of. The hardware looks impressive, and the work it took to get where you are in the project must have been enormous. My hat is off to the developers.

    That said, Any rational person would be skeptical about a product that claims to be effective, as proven by tests - and then won't share the tests. That's just the way it is, and you certainly must understand that. So - what's the logical conclusion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Buccaneer, Truthfully, I really admire a grassroots effort like the one you are a part of. The hardware looks impressive, and the work it took to get where you are in the project must have been enormous. My hat is off to the developers. That said, Any rational person would be skeptical about a product that claims to be effective, as proven by tests - and then won't share the tests. That's just the way it is, and you certainly must understand that. So - what's the logical conclusion?
    The logical conclusion is the renegade works great and if you want to experience your head pinned to the head rest find a renegade equipped crossfire or buy one yourself they are well worth it

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    "Buccaneer"....

    I've never met Joe Rode, "Publisher" of Super Chevy. According to Source Interlink's web site, Joe Foos is Publisher of SC.

    My work with that magazine predates Rode's or Foos' tenures as Publisher. I wrote for Super Chevy back when Terry Cole was Editor. Admittedly, that's a few years ago.

    I've worked as an automotive writer for many years covering all kinds of products. The fact that DCS has test data but won't share it and has never done an A-B test on an 84 Corvette...an application which would probably represent an important part of the market...speaks volumes about the Renegade and it's ability to affect (or not, as the case might be) performance of LU5 305 and L83 350s with the 2xTBI induction system.

    If DCS wanted to improve its marketing and PR, the first thing it out to do is convince "nelson84" to stop trying to be the Renegade's evangelist. The guy has no skills there and hurts the product's credibility more than he helps it.

    Then, get back to basics....fix whatever foundry problems there are, then reintroduce the product, release some credible test data and encourage automotive media with a 3rd Gen F--car and 84 Vette audience to cover the product.

    One question I had about the Renegade has to do with port volumes. There were guys at GM in the '79-'80 period who paid for new houses with the overtime it took to get that 69 Z/28 crossram-derived intake manifold to work at low speeds with good driveability. The biggest problem was port volumes.

    What is it that DCS has done that allows the port volumes to be such that the RPM range is extended and more power is produced, yet good drivability, reasonable fuel economy are preserved?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelson84 View Post
    The logical conclusion is the renegade works great and if you want to experience your head pinned to the head rest find a renegade equipped crossfire or buy one yourself they are well worth it

    Anyone who reads your posts will come to the "logical conclusion" that they should run away and hide from it. You appear to be ready to buy anything that comes along, and praise it's glory with no factual, before and after data, to back up any performance gains that you state.


    If you really want to help the Renegade (which I believe you actually do), then you may want to consider quit posting about it.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    "Buccaneer"....

    I've never met Joe Rode, "Publisher" of Super Chevy. According to Source Interlink's web site, Joe Foos is Publisher of SC.

    My work with that magazine predates Rode's or Foos' tenures as Publisher. I wrote for Super Chevy back when Terry Cole was Editor. Admittedly, that's a few years ago.

    I've worked as an automotive writer for many years covering all kinds of products. The fact that DCS has test data but won't share it and has never done an A-B test on an 84 Corvette...an application which would probably represent an important part of the market...speaks volumes about the Renegade and it's ability to affect (or not, as the case might be) performance of LU5 305 and L83 350s with the 2xTBI induction system.

    If DCS wanted to improve its marketing and PR, the first thing it out to do is convince "nelson84" to stop trying to be the Renegade's evangelist. The guy has no skills there and hurts the product's credibility more than he helps it.

    Then, get back to basics....fix whatever foundry problems there are, then reintroduce the product, release some credible test data and encourage automotive media with a 3rd Gen F--car and 84 Vette audience to cover the product.

    One question I had about the Renegade has to do with port volumes. There were guys at GM in the '79-'80 period who paid for new houses with the overtime it took to get that 69 Z/28 crossram-derived intake manifold to work at low speeds with good driveability. The biggest problem was port volumes.

    What is it that DCS has done that allows the port volumes to be such that the RPM range is extended and more power is produced, yet good drivability, reasonable fuel economy are preserved?
    Not to get into a pissing contest of any kind here, but I think you misunderstood me on Mr. Rodes title or maybe I have misunderstood your reply. I said "Associate" Publisher which is exactly what it says on his business card that I'm looking at at the moment. I thought maybe I read it wrong. I also understand that any work you may have done with them earlier was probably before Joe...no biggy. You can still check us out if you like with them. I personally haven't talked to Joe for almost a year now. None the less, the above story is true, maybe he moved on.

    I know who you are and what you do for some time now, but that still doesn't matter to me or my partner in relation to our product. We have no intention on doing any reviews at this time. We'll let you know if that changes in the future. I have read at various times like mentioned above about our marketing strategy or lack of it and how bizarre it is in doing business. Well, our current method or lack of it seems to work for us and has been working for us for some time now, why mess with perfection if it's working? We can't even handle what we are doing, hence the reason we turned off the purchase buttons on some items. So, something must be working...right?

    Since some seem to want data of some sort from us which has been posted in the past, here's a range to work with. Gains of 30-38RWHP are typical with 15-20lbs torq. on a stock motor in various degrees of repair. Every motor is different and will respond differently. I plan on and won't debate this post any further, it is what it is and that's it. Have a nice day all.


    One last note...We have asked several people on various forums whoever they are to please STOP being our spokesperson to no avail. I can assure you there is NOBODY other than myself and my partner who speak for us on an officiate level. Thanks

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    Well, there it is. Buccaneer has that rare talent of being able to tell critics to pound sand in a most courteous and agreeable way. That's a talent I was NEVER able to develop. I tip my hat for his cool demeanor.

    That should end the debate. His business plan is his own, and it's working, according to Buccaneer. Folks must be lining up to buy the Renegade based on anecdotal facts that have convinced them it works. So, whether we are believers, or not, it's all been said.
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    I misread your earlier post, "Buccaneer". You did say "Associate". I missed that. I apologize for that mistake.

    Thanks for posting some power numbers. Can you post the torque figure? Also were the numbers from an engine dyno or on a chassis dyno? Lastly are they SAE- or Std-corrected?

    Would you care to address my other question about port volumes, drivability at low-/mid-range rpm and fuel economy? Also, for CAC members with CFI engines in cars registered in states with exhaust emissions tests, can a stock engine with your intake pass an emissions test such is done in California, Maryland and other states? Or....is the Renegade a off-road/race-only modification?

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    I love the idea of EFI and duals (TBs).


    I really do.




    I'd love to have an intake that was capable of making good power with CFI because of the throwback cool factor that CFI offers. Heck- I would even buy a Renegade right now- yes, even though I don't have the car- because if it works even just a little better than stock, it would be worth holding on to until I had a car. I'd settle up later in terms of getting a car that it would fit on (ie- an L83 '82). It wouldn't be the first time I acquired parts for a car I didn't yet have.


    So... kudos to Buc for getting it in production and having folks lined up who are buying it. That takes a dream and determination. I can respect a guy who is willing to take that kinda risk and be a success.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KANE View Post
    I love the idea of EFI and duals (TBs).


    I really do.




    I'd love to have an intake that was capable of making good power with CFI because of the throwback cool factor that CFI offers. Heck- I would even buy a Renegade right now- yes, even though I don't have the car- because if it works even just a little better than stock, it would be worth holding on to until I had a car. I'd settle up later in terms of getting a car that it would fit on (ie- an L83 '82). It wouldn't be the first time I acquired parts for a car I didn't yet have.


    So... kudos to Buc for getting it in production and having folks lined up who are buying it. That takes a dream and determination. I can respect a guy who is willing to take that kinda risk and be a success.
    Thanks Kane. It's been a "very" long road on this project and "very" expensive as well. We never set out to be in the manufacturing business...it just kind of happened and evolved into its own beast. We just picked up were Pat left off with the Xram and made a better mouse trap as it were. Some would dispute that, but so be it.

    To date, we have not received any negative feedback on our product that I'm aware of and everyone seems to be happy with their purchase. The only thing that has been negative in anyway in relation to our manifold has been the amount of time it took to get one. Once again, that is/has been totally beyond our control. We CAN NOT force the foundry to pour any faster, force the machinist to machine them any faster or force the pattern maker to make a spec change quicker. We are at their mercy on these two items. It makes us look bad because of this, but there's nothing we can do.

    If you all knew what was involved in the making of a manifold of this type, nobody would "ever" make comments about our product from a manufacturing standpoint. Example: We make a small pattern change, there's a week or more for that. Next, we have to schedule a meeting with them to check out the work/progress, another week goes by. Then it finally goes to the foundry to make a casting, check it and make a test pour, another two weeks maybe more goes by. After a test pour, we pick it up and delivery it to our machinist. It will be another week or possibly more before we can schedule a meeting with him to see if everything we made a change to is good or bad. Do the math, it takes a huge amount of time to make the smallest change or tweak. Now, do this over and over again during development and you can quickly see how time can add up and push things back. Now add in all the other things that can go wrong and we are now way behind the power curve on our deliveries. That in very simple form what we've had to deal with.

    I didn't come here to banter back and forth on any of my posts or pound anything nor will I, but rather just set a few misconceptions straight from a real company spokesperson and not hearsay from keyboard commandos.

    We have not gotten the manifold C.A.R.B. certified...yet. It does have all the provisions required though if your state is an emissions type state. We went out of our way in the design to make that happen. I'd like to say that during our testing, we have the data from the emissions stations in AZ that would support a pass condition, but all the vehicles used in our tests were emissions exempt both the 82 and 84 models used. So for now, we are selling it as an off-road equipment item for that reason. Cross-sectional area values have not been officially published by us yet.

    Hopefully this helps.

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    Buccaneer, your response here is GREATLY appreciated. There has been so much "talk" here and it has caused a bit of "unrest" with the locals. Your participation has calmed some of that unrest. We truly appreciate you input and hope that you will continue to keep us updated and abreast (no pun intended ) of your work.
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    Hi all, As I understood it, Arizona has now put back its emission testing requirements to anything manufactured since 1967. When I lived there, until '98 it was '75. Does my memory let me down ?....Roger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger longman View Post
    Hi all, As I understood it, Arizona has now put back its emission testing requirements to anything manufactured since 1967. When I lived there, until '98 it was '75. Does my memory let me down ?....Roger.
    As it stands today, Arizona emissions law says if your vehicle is 1967 or newer, you have to have an emission test done in certain county's. If your vehicle is five years or newer you do not have to put your vehicle on the rollers, just plug into the test port and check for a CEL code.

    There is a movement in Arizona that is trying to push a Bill through to have the law changed to if your vehicle is 25 years or older, no emission test required. I'm in favor of that for sure even though I have a tune for my 383 CFI motor to pass emissions with no issues. I just had mine tested about a month ago and passed so I'm good to go for another two years or register it as a collector vehicle and not ever have to worry about it again. No update on how the new Bill is doing that I know of. Maybe someone else knows more on this topic.

    On another note...Out of the blue we get a call from none other than Joe Rode which I had just mentioned the other day in a post. He is indeed not working with/at Super Chevy magazine anymore and is with another company dealing with the auto industry. He is still very much interested in our manifold and further talks with him will be had. More on this if possible later. We have so much going on, that its hard to keep up with everything, but I guess that's a good thing these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LLC5 View Post
    Anyone who reads your posts will come to the "logical conclusion" that they should run away and hide from it. You appear to be ready to buy anything that comes along, and praise it's glory with no factual, before and after data, to back up any performance gains that you state.If you really want to help the Renegade (which I believe you actually do), then you may want to consider quit posting about it.
    What is the point of your post?Yes I bought a renegade but for your XXXXXXXXXXXX of the product in question. I didn't just run out and buy it I researched and acquired information on the product and I was emailed some photos and data that you obviously don't have.For a guy that calls himself a master technician, you should be able to figure out that an intake manifold with larger tapered runners, larger volume and stripped of all the limiting factors would improve performance. Forum members like my posts I get PMed about how much they enjoy my comments. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

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