• C6 Z06 Embargoed GM Photos
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  1. #1
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Default C6 Z06 Embargoed GM Photos

    It has come to my attention that GM embargoed photos of the C6 Z06 are floating around the web.

    A few people who claim they know-all, think it's BS since the photos were within public domain. That is not the case.

    As is the policy here that I enforced at the beginning of the year regarding GM embargoed material being posted, those photos of the C6 Z06 are NOT to be posted in these forums under any circumstances prior to January 10, 2005.


    Rob Loszewski, Owner & Site Administrator
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    "Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt." - Sun Tzu
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  2. #2
    C6 Z06 Embargoed GM Photos Z06 Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    It has come to my attention that GM embargoed photos of the C6 Z06 are floating around the web.

    A few people who claim they know-all, think it's BS since the photos were within public domain. That is not the case.

    As is the policy here that I enforced at the beginning of the year regarding GM embargoed material being posted, those photos of the C6 Z06 are NOT to be posted in these forums under any circumstances prior to January 10, 2005.
    Good thing Rob... Check this out: http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...0&page=1&pp=15
    Don't want the GM "Internet Cops" showing up on your doorstep!

    BTW: Hey GM, I don't know ANY of those guys!!

    Electron Blue/Black '02 Z06 "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!"

    Vortech V-2 SQ T-Trim Aftercooled Supercharger, AFR 205's, Custom Grind "Blower" Cam, SPEC Clutch, Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel, Hardened Output Shaft, 3:73 Rear Gears And A Bunch Of Other Cool Junk.

  3. #3
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    ^^^ I'm well aware of the situation.

    I'm not really going to comment on this because when I do, I just get a bunch of people jumping down my throat and flinging the first amendment in my face - followed by a pile of bull**** accusations of me working for GM, etc. It kind of gets tiring after a while.

    I'm well aware of the C6 Z06 and I'm excited about its arrival as well as the future of Corvette Development. Regardless, I have to remain patient just like everyone else needs to. <---keywords there

    The fact of the matter is, what happened to that guy last night is the exact reason why I was so hard-edged about posting embargoed photos and information on the C6 here, a little over a year ago. I'm a very busy guy working two jobs and trying to run this web site. Regardless of whether or not GM has any legal rights to do what they did by showing up on his doorstep and threatening him, I have no time nor the desire to deal with legal situations and having attorneys show up on my doorstep. It just makes for an unpleasant experience, and there's no need of it.

    The other reason why I have upheld GM's embargos here, is because I feel that we have a good working relationship with them when it comes to acquiring good, solid information from them as seen in the series of C6 articles by Hib Halverson, the information they provided that helped me write the Long Term Winter Corvette Storage article, and the appearance of two 2005 C6 prototypes at our first annual CruiseFest back in May of this year. GM DIDN'T have to bring those C6s to our show, and they DIDN'T have to help Hib Halverson or myself with the articles we've written.

    GM isn't in the habit of just taking a break, sitting down with you over coffee and giving you any information you want to know. Over time, you develop a mutual respect and working relationship that doesn't just pop-up over night. It takes time. It's taken me 4 long years to develop this web site and try and build that relationship and GM's respect for what we do here. I'm not about to blow 4 years of blood, sweat and tears by allowing the posting of embargoed information here.

    I have no desire to be a jerk, tyrant, dictator, hardass, whatever about this, but the fact remains: Information is classfied/embargoed for a reason. Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that is a fact of life when dealing with Corporate America. If other Corvette web sites choose not to honor GM embargos, that is their choice. In the past, I have complied and enforced any and all GM embargoes on this web site and I will continue to do so. If that makes me the bad guy or the prude, or whatever - so be it.

    <----Steps down off pulpit.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

  4. #4
    C6 Z06 Embargoed GM Photos DRTH VTR's Avatar
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    Rob-
    I believe that you are correct, and your position is the only reasonable one to take.
    Jim

  5. #5
    Member lov-n-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    ^^^ I'm well aware of the situation.

    I'm not really going to comment on this because when I do, I just get a bunch of people jumping down my throat and flinging the first amendment in my face - followed by a pile of bull**** accusations of me working for GM, etc. It kind of gets tiring after a while.

    I'm well aware of the C6 Z06 and I'm excited about its arrival as well as the future of Corvette Development. Regardless, I have to remain patient just like everyone else needs to. <---keywords there

    The fact of the matter is, what happened to that guy last night is the exact reason why I was so hard-edged about posting embargoed photos and information on the C6 here, a little over a year ago. I'm a very busy guy working two jobs and trying to run this web site. Regardless of whether or not GM has any legal rights to do what they did by showing up on his doorstep and threatening him, I have no time nor the desire to deal with legal situations and having attorneys show up on my doorstep. It just makes for an unpleasant experience, and there's no need of it.

    The other reason why I have upheld GM's embargos here, is because I feel that we have a good working relationship with them when it comes to acquiring good, solid information from them as seen in the series of C6 articles by Hib Halverson, the information they provided that helped me write the Long Term Winter Corvette Storage article, and the appearance of two 2005 C6 prototypes at our first annual CruiseFest back in May of this year. GM DIDN'T have to bring those C6s to our show, and they DIDN'T have to help Hib Halverson or myself with the articles we've written.

    GM isn't in the habit of just taking a break, sitting down with you over coffee and giving you any information you want to know. Over time, you develop a mutual respect and working relationship that doesn't just pop-up over night. It takes time. It's taken me 4 long years to develop this web site and try and build that relationship and GM's respect for what we do here. I'm not about to blow 4 years of blood, sweat and tears by allowing the posting of embargoed information here.

    I have no desire to be a jerk, tyrant, dictator, hardass, whatever about this, but the fact remains: Information is classfied/embargoed for a reason. Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that is a fact of life when dealing with Corporate America. If other Corvette web sites choose not to honor GM embargos, that is their choice. In the past, I have complied and enforced any and all GM embargoes on this web site and I will continue to do so. If that makes me the bad guy or the prude, or whatever - so be it.

    <----Steps down off pulpit.
    Rob,
    You do, and have done, an outstanding job and have made the CAC one of the best automotive forums on the web. I'm quite sure you have the backing of the regulars, if not everyone, on here. I view your statement about 1st amendment rights, and what I believe your intention behind the statement is, to be accurate. That is, freedom of the press and freedom of speech does not mean anyone has the right to proliferate confidential material, if that material is known to be confidential. That being said, for GM to pass out pictures of the new car to the media with an embargo date on them... well that's just asking for trouble. The media must have had to sign legal paperwork stating they would withhold those images until the embargo date, obviously there was a leak from a media source for the images to get out to an everyday joe who posted them to a website. GM therefore should have no grounds to threaten him, he didn't release the images to the public, he simply posted a link. The internet is quite often a grey area of legal bounds. Beyond that, there are so many pictures floating around the web of various makes of new cars. I'm willing to bet that 99% or more of those images do not have a classified stamp, embargo date, or legal form attached. So the question begs to be asked, especially for all the members on this site who do post images, how does one come to find out if an image is indeed embargoed for media release after a certain date, vs ligit "spyshots" that are the property of the public domain and/or photographer who took the pictures?
    All this playing nice is not in my nature, so here is my personal rant ... I was just coming around to liking GM again, and was looking forward to buying a Z06/Z07 in the next 2 years, however I hope GM is reading this. I'll be keeping my C5 instead, and my next car will not be a GM product (not that they have anything worth a d**n other than Corvette). Should I decied $65k+ is a reasonable price for my next sports car, I'll be talking to the Porsche dealership again. The guys on the Z06 forum are right, GM should be spending the millions of dollars they are willing to use to "make a point" on customer service and product development rather than threatening one of their customers.

    Edit: To Clarify, I do support your position on this Rob, my main point was the question to be asked how one knows if an image is embargoed, as this is the first time I have ever heard of an embargoed picture? I just got off on a tangent because it really ticks me off to see GM doing this to one of their customers.

  6. #6
    Member KOPBET's Avatar
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    Geez. Always looking out for yourself, eh Rob? (just kidding!)

    Out of curiosity though, how do you get notification of what the terms and limits of the embargo are, and what constitutes an item that falls into that category? I would assume that it would only pertain to GM property and not to photos taken "in the open". Am I incorrect? Should one assume photos are embargoed prima facie?

  7. #7
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lov-n-life
    Rob,
    You do, and have done, an outstanding job and have made the CAC one of the best automotive forums on the web. I'm quite sure you have the backing of the regulars, if not everyone, on here. I view your statement about 1st amendment rights, and what I believe your intention behind the statement is, to be accurate. That is, freedom of the press and freedom of speech does not mean anyone has the right to proliferate confidential material, if that material is known to be confidential. That being said, for GM to pass out pictures of the new car to the media with an embargo date on them... well that's just asking for trouble. The media must have had to sign legal paperwork stating they would withhold those images until the embargo date, obviously there was a leak from a media source for the images to get out to an everyday joe who posted them to a website. GM therefore should have no grounds to threaten him, he didn't release the images to the public, he simply posted a link. The internet is quite often a grey area of legal bounds. Beyond that, there are so many pictures floating around the web of various makes of new cars. I'm willing to bet that 99% or more of those images do not have a classified stamp, embargo date, or legal form attached. So the question begs to be asked, especially for all the members on this site who do post images, how does one come to find out if an image is indeed embargoed for media release after a certain date, vs ligit "spyshots" that are the property of the public domain and/or photographer who took the pictures?
    All this playing nice is not in my nature, so here is my personal rant ... I was just coming around to liking GM again, and was looking forward to buying a Z06/Z07 in the next 2 years, however I hope GM is reading this. I'll be keeping my C5 instead, and my next car will not be a GM product (not that they have anything worth a d**n other than Corvette). Should I decied $65k+ is a reasonable price for my next sports car, I'll be talking to the Porsche dealership again. The guys on the Z06 forum are right, GM should be spending the millions of dollars they are willing to use to "make a point" on customer service and product development rather than threatening one of their customers.

    Edit: To Clarify, I do support your position on this Rob, my main point was the question to be asked how one knows if an image is embargoed, as this is the first time I have ever heard of an embargoed picture? I just got off on a tangent because it really ticks me off to see GM doing this to one of their customers.
    Thanks.

    I agree with some of the points you made. I wasn't there to see the transaction between all three gentlemen so I can't speculate. I can understand if GM came knocking and simply asked questions in order to acquire the information they needed to determine the source of the leak. To threaten and use scare tactics, if that is in fact what they did, seems a bit harsh and unnecessary, but that's just my opinion. Again, I don't know the facts of the situation and really don't care to get involved other than to simply reiterate and clarify my position on posting embargoed information here.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

  8. #8
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOPBET
    Geez. Always looking out for yourself, eh Rob? (just kidding!)

    Out of curiosity though, how do you get notification of what the terms and limits of the embargo are, and what constitutes an item that falls into that category? I would assume that it would only pertain to GM property and not to photos taken "in the open". Am I incorrect? Should one assume photos are embargoed prima facie?
    Any information that is given to me regarding future Corvette product(s), specifications, pictures, etc., is given to me under strict confidence that it will not be redistributed in any form prior to a set release date and time.

    Some of the information that was given to me a year ago that was covered under the January 1st embargo had been released on other web sites around 3-4 weeks prior. Again, I can't control what other site owners choose to do or not to do. It's their site and they can do what they want. As long as I own and operate this site, I will abide by any GM embargos set forth.

    Yes, it's fun to be the first to know something that nobody else does, and everyone likes to think they're a James Bond 007 when it comes to acquiring future Corvette information, but what a lot of people fail to realize/accept, is that that little gift of knowledge can come with a heavy price tag on it. For me, it is a price I'm not willing to pay under any circumstances.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

  9. #9
    C6 Z06 Embargoed GM Photos Z06 Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    ...I'm not about to blow 4 years of blood, sweat and tears by allowing the posting of embargoed information here.

    I have no desire to be a jerk, tyrant, dictator, hardass, whatever about this, but the fact remains: Information is classfied/embargoed for a reason. Regardless of whether or not you agree with it, that is a fact of life when dealing with Corporate America. If other Corvette web sites choose not to honor GM embargos, that is their choice. In the past, I have complied and enforced any and all GM embargoes on this web site and I will continue to do so. If that makes me the bad guy or the prude, or whatever - so be it.

    <----Steps down off pulpit.
    Just for the record Rob, I don't blame you. You've put together a nice site, and If you've got GM on board, that's a real plus. As you can see by my link, JC over on Z06Vette did the same thing. GM takes part in our Z06 Fest. My nine year old got to go for a ride in a C6 Vert with one of the GM guys last July at the Fest. I enjoyed talking to the guy. They probably just rattled Paul's cage to try and find the source of the leak. You're doing things the right way, stay the course.

    BTW: If I kiss up to you enough, can you get me a GM discount or something if I decide to buy a C6 Z?

    Electron Blue/Black '02 Z06 "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!"

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  10. #10
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z06 Tom

    BTW: If I kiss up to you enough, can you get me a GM discount or something if I decide to buy a C6 Z?


    Tom...if I had such power, I'd be getting myself a C6 Z before anyone else.

    Unfortunately, first I need a house before I can even begin to think of buying another Corvette.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

  11. #11
    Member lov-n-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    Thanks.

    I agree with some of the points you made. I wasn't there to see the transaction between all three gentlemen so I can't speculate. I can understand if GM came knocking and simply asked questions in order to acquire the information they needed to determine the source of the leak. To threaten and use scare tactics, if that is in fact what they did, seems a bit harsh and unnecessary, but that's just my opinion. Again, I don't know the facts of the situation and really don't care to get involved other than to simply reiterate and clarify my position on posting embargoed information here.
    So is that to say that you have embargoed material and should someone post the same information on this website you know what to look for and remove it (GM entrusting you as they should and let you police your own site)? This goes back to my original question... How does someone know if they are posting embargoed material (the average joe such as myself or 99% of other forum members)?

  12. #12
    jimmyb
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    Default GM's right to their info

    Jesus, when did 12 year olds start buying cars? GM has every right to release info on new product when THEY see fit. I appreciate the fun of seeing new cars before they're released, but, this is a business they are running. I wonder what Microsoft would do about this kind of leak?

  13. #13
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lov-n-life
    So is that to say that you have embargoed material and should someone post the same information on this website you know what to look for and remove it (GM entrusting you as they should and let you police your own site)? This goes back to my original question... How does someone know if they are posting embargoed material (the average joe such as myself or 99% of other forum members)?
    In some cases, yes, I know what the information/pictures are that is covered under the embargo. Some people do not know that what they are posting (pictures, or PDFs, MS Word docs, etc.) are embargoed. It is my responsibility to make sure that that material is not posted here and if it is, that it's removed ASAP.

    Some people knowingly post the embargoed information and some don't.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

  14. #14
    Member lov-n-life's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob
    In some cases, yes, I know what the information/pictures are that is covered under the embargo. Some people do not know that what they are posting (pictures, or PDFs, MS Word docs, etc.) are embargoed. It is my responsibility to make sure that that material is not posted here and if it is, that it's removed ASAP.

    Some people knowingly post the embargoed information and some don't.
    Thanks... at least someone knows what information is not for public viewing (yet).

  15. #15
    Site Administrator Rob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyb
    Jesus, when did 12 year olds start buying cars? GM has every right to release info on new product when THEY see fit. I appreciate the fun of seeing new cars before they're released, but, this is a business they are running. I wonder what Microsoft would do about this kind of leak?
    My thoughts exactly. If I owned a company that was in the business of building a fairly unique product, yes, it's great marketing to let camo'd prototypes run around, etc., but if I entrust detailed photos to someone with a written understanding that they are not to be released to the public prior to a specific date and time, then I expect that written understanding to be upheld.

    If it isn't, then as owner of the company, I'd be in touch with my attorneys pronto.

    I'm not condoning or condeming what GM did in this situation. I don't know the details of the situation and it's not up to me to pass judgement. I just want to make sure that we all have a clear understanding of what is and isn't acceptable here on the CAC.
    1990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 , 350 Stock ZF 6-speed. Stock Bright Red

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