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  1. #391
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    Picking up where post #390 left off...

    Well...no way was I going to accept Katech's offer, shown at the end of the post above.

    I was unwilling to create any content about Katech prior to and as a condition of a refund. Also, I was unwilling to sign an ND agreement. Finally, needless to say, the offer of ten grand didn't sit well with me as Rebuild2 cost me almost twice that.

    I replied to Katech making those points.

    I didn't hear anything for a while but then, on 11MAR I received a UPS Blue from Katech. In it was a cover letter and two checks, one for the my trip expenses and a second for $10000.00. Key points Katech made in the letter were:

    1) A reminder that the warranty on Rebuild3 was voided.
    (Remember: I was the one to put that idea forth in the first place.)
    2) The $10,000.00 came with no conditions.
    3) Katech's hope that the 10-grand would be a "...happy ending..." and "...closure to our saga."

    The full letter is available to read by clicking below.

    FromKatech031120.pdf

    ​I cashed the expense check and reimbursed my business for the money I spent on the trip. I did not cash the other check thinking that I could continue to negotiate with Katech in hopes of getting a full rather than a partial refund on Rebuild2.

    Then, two days later, Katech posted to the then-still-open thread on the Corvette Forum. Click here to read it. I considered that for several days then decided further talks with Katech were a waste of time given the tone of Katech's post to the CF on 13MAR. I ended the letter by telling Katech...

    Those incidents made it clear to me that further discussion of the refund would be a fool's errand. I shall deposit that $10,000.00 check later today.

    I disagree that check is, as you said, "...another example of how we are going above and beyond to be more than reasonable." Katech and myself have vastly different definitions of "reasonable".

    I would not characterize your effort as resulting in a, "...happy ending...". While, from my perspective, it's anything but that, I'll acknowledge that it does represent a closure which should please Katech's new owners along with their accountants and legal counsel.

    For the full text of my letter to Katech of 17MAR, click on the link below.

    Katech031620.pdf

    I also posted an answer to Katech's 13MAR Corvette Forum posting. Click here to read it. That prompted Katech to post to the CF thread again.

    Ok. Now, we get to the really juicy stuff...



    All,

    We are getting hit pretty hard in this thread

    Hib – You told me there was closure in this matter… and our differences were resolved in a note on March 17 as you were cashing our $10,000 check. Obviously, from your most recent post, that statement was a clear misrepresentation to induce us to paying you money that you were not entitled to.

    Key FACTS are being left out.

    One small item before we go any further:
    https://i.ibb.co/z8JhQTq/Hib-Tuning3.png
    https://i.ibb.co/HgvTNpy/Hib-Tuning5.png


    Hib also admitted on the HP Tuner’s message board, “But then, dumb-assed mistakes are how I learn, sometimes.”

    For those of you would like to review the tune or Hib's comment above see the HP Tuners thread from 2/24/18:
    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...sesed&p=516190.

    Our Warranty is not a test bed for folks to try their tuning skills.

    There was a lot of wasted time that we paid dearly for, between four and eight times what it costed Hib. Now he’s not stopping, voided our warranty, took our money, and runs our reputation through the mud.

    Fast forward to today. He now has an engine that Katech put 2000 miles on it. We were satisfied and handed him the keys. He put another 3000+ miles on it himself and was excited about the torque, power, and lack of oil consumption. So, what does he do?

    Goes and tunes it…

    How did we find out? The Corvette Forum.

    He takes our generosity and slams us for it. He changes things without our prior knowledge and expects us to figure out what he did, what kind of impact it had, and how we should fix it all on our dime.

    We’ve got other things to do and good honest customers to serve.

    To anyone that is concerned about our quality and question our ability to honor our warranty: Our quality is better than ever and we continue to stand by our work. Your warranty will remain intact, it will be honored, as long as you do not void it.

    Steve Spurr – Katech President.
    Last edited by Katech_Zach; 03-20-2020 at 04:44 PM.


    I'll let those following this Blog read and digest the above. If you want to read it as it was posted on the Corvette Forum,
    click here.

    That was the final post to the CF. After it was made, the moderator of the C5 ZR1/Z06 forum closed the thread and took it off-line for several days so he would review all 600+ posts, delete those he felt were
    irrelevant. It was reposted in the Corvette Forum's "Transaction Dispute" forum.

    I was not offered an opportunity to comment on Katech's final post some of which reads as if it was an attempt to discredit me.

    In the next day or so I'll post my reaction, right here on the Blue Bullet Blog
    Last edited by Hib Halverson; 04-01-20 at 01:52 PM.
    Hib Halverson

  2. #392
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    Hiib, hi

    i been following this on CF, i think for those of us on the end user side of things feel that if anyone was discredited it was Katech. i feel they used you changing an air filter and spark plugs as and out, as for the tuning "if" the car was running right there would be no reason to re-tune it now would there? it was made clear Mahle product was the main issue, im self employed and over the years some of the supply houses i use have have pointed me in the wrong direction just like Mahle did to Katech it cost me money to make it right with my clients

    let talk air filters if your air filter let dirt and debris into the engine it for sure would have scared some or even every cylinder 100% but would not have polished them to a mirror finish any one who been inside an engine would know that, now the plugs if you would of burned a piston id say Hib you F'up but you changed plugs to try and get the car to run right if it was running right you dont swap plugs that fast on a new engine all your efforts with tuning and plugs was to get that crappy engine they charged you for to run right

    the first two engines left there shop with an oil addiction that was not your fault, not running correct thats why they sent you some tunes then gave up on doing that left you swinging in the wind so when you tried locally to get the tune right they used that on you

    IMO them mentioning the air filter was the cause or even part of it was even after knowing it was the rings for me it just put more water in there sinking boat!

  3. #393
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    this whole episode has been a circus from the beginning...... I'm just glad you got a car that is finally doing what it is supposed to. Katech screwed the pooch on this deal. That 10K they held back is going to cost them a whole lot of money down the line...... enjoy the car Hib....

  4. #394
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    Time to drill down into Katech's most recent statements regarding the "Street Attack LS7" in my '12 Z06.

    Hib – You told me there was closure in this matter… and our differences were resolved in a note on March 17 as you were cashing our $10,000 check. Obviously, from your most recent post, that statement was a clear misrepresentation to induce us to paying you money that you were not entitled to.
    It is surprising that the President of a multi-million-dollar corporation that depends, in part, on the Corvette community for its business decided to troll one of their customers on the Corvette Forum. One can speculate that Steve Spurr did not understand my letter to him of 17March. To review, the last few paragraphs of that letter stated:

    I shall deposit that $10,000.00 check later today.
    I disagree that check is, as you said, "...another example of how we are going above and beyond to be more than reasonable." Katech and myself have vastly different definitions of "reasonable".
    I would not characterize your effort as resulting in a, "...happy ending...". While, from my perspective, it's anything but that, I'll acknowledge that it does represent a closure which should please Katech's new owners along with their accountants and legal counsel.

    It should have been clear to Steve Spurr that I felt Katech's position was unreasonable. A conclusion that, from my perspective there was no closure and any differences were not resolved, should have been easy for him to reach. One can only wonder why, if Katech felt I "induced" it into paying me money to which I was not entitled, the company didn't stop payment on the check.

    Moving right along...

    One small item before we go any further:
    Originally Posted by Hib Halverson
    I changed no parts except the spark plugs and the engine oil filer. Saying that I was "...changing parts as he desired." is a distortion of fact and I have pictures to back up that statement
    Hib claims that he changed no parts except spark plugs and the engine oil filter, this is not the case. The intake filter media is just one of the additional items that were changed and documented. Upon diagnosis, we found sand and other foreign debris were inside the intake manifold.
    767-74-jpg 767-75-jpg
    These are images I shot of the engine in my car as it was on 7DEC2017 the day the car left Katech after the first rebuild.

    As you can see, installed on the car is a Zip Products "Mamba" air intake system. Inside that "Mamba" is an oiled cotton air filter element–the same type of filter Katech sells on-line. That filter element was in the Mamba when it left Katech. It was never changed in the five months the engine lasted. No other parts were changed, other than a set of spark plugs and an oil filter and I defy Katech to prove otherwise.

    767-76-png

    This is an image of the engine Katech shot after the car was arrived there on or about 20MAY2018 for Rebuild2. This image clearly show the Mamba was still in place neither it, nor its filter were changed.

    While we are discussing the filter inside the Mamba, it is true that Katech documented sand inside the intake manifold, however, it must not have been there long or in any great quantity because, there is no evidence of any of the cylinder bores having the deep scratches which would have been present if a lot of sand had been ingested by the engine.

    767-80-png
    This is an image Katech produced of one of the bores in the cylinder case taken after the first rebuild failed. It's important to note the lack of any deep scratches typical of damages caused for foreign object ingestion. It's also important to note that all those "very shallow striations" are obvious evidence of a fine abrasive–Mahle's failed ring coating–having scored the bores with small, shallow striations.

    767-81-png
    This is an image Katech produced of the skirt of one of the pistons removed after Rebuild1 failed. Katech characterized the level of skirt wear as "normal". Had the engine ingested a lot of sand, the pistons skirts would have exhibited a lot of deep scratches.

    767-82-png
    This is an image Katech produced of one of the piston crowns from the failed Rebuild1. Katech noted "polishing/possible wear" which was likely caused by the fine abrasive which was Mahle's failed ring coating.

    We were never able to diagnose ring / bore wall material incompatibility due to the calibration and part components changed. We never had a chance to properly root cause the high oil consumption condition; due to Hib’s admitted failure to follow our warranty policy.
    Katech never attempted to diagnose a ring problem even though there was plenty of evidence it existed. Katech was focused solely placing blame on the customer and claiming my calibration caused the engine to fail. All you have to do is watch this video footage which was shot on 14JAN2018, five weeks after the engine was rebuilt at Katech and before I made any cal changes to WOT fuel and spark. Prior to that footage being shot on the only calibration changes made were the three calibrations Katech emailed to me.

    YouTube

    Katech had a copy of that video a day after it was shot but choose to ignore the glaring evidence that the engine was sucking oil big-time way before any fuel and spark changes were made.

    One of our engineers said it best, “Ring / bore wall interaction may have caused the engine oil consumption but not 1 engine on the planet would have lived through Hib’s tune.”
    Facts prove otherwise. I admit that my calibration was not optimal but it had little affect on the engine's ability to "live though Hib's tune." Imagery Katech recorded of various engine parts after the engine was disassembled prior after Rebuild1 failed don't support that's engineer's opinion.

    767-77-png
    This is an image of the piston tops. They show no evidence of excessive combustion temperature which Katech claims damaged the engine and caused high oil consumption.

    767-78-png
    Here's a combustion chamber–more evidence that combustion temperature high enough to damage the engine never existed.

    767-83-png
    Here's an image of one set of valves which came out of the failed Rebuild1, both of which were characterized by Katech as "Ok used condition." The exhaust valve (left) shows no evidence of high combustion temperature. The intake valve (right) shows obvious evidence of high oil consumption.

    That's enough deep drilling for now. I'll address the rest of Katech's final post to the now-closed Corvette Forum thread in my next Blog post.

    Let me know what you think.
    Last edited by Hib Halverson; 04-03-20 at 12:20 PM.
    Hib Halverson

  5. #395
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    At this point I think Katech has signed off on it as being a done deal for them. The closing of the thread on CF was for the good of them as they hope folks will move on. As I have said before all we can do is vote with our feet and not darken their door for our speed needs...... put the hammer down boys....

  6. #396
    Moderator catbert's Avatar
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    Do you suppose there was an issue, other than costs, that led GM to bring Corvette Racing’s engine building in-house? Just curious.
    There are times for thinking, and times for acting, but the art is in the balance


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  7. #397
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    Catbert!

    Long time since we've exchanged greetings!


    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Do you suppose there was an issue, other than costs, that led GM to bring Corvette Racing’s engine building in-house? Just curious.
    Great question, but no, I don't, for several reasons...

    1) The current management at Katech was not in place when GM took the Corvette Racing Engine program in-house.
    2) Katech had different owners when it was the engine supplier and when GM took the engine program in-house.
    3) GM Racing made that decision because it felt bringing the Corvette Racing engine program in-house would a) allow it to exercise more control, b) it would allow GM to challenge it's own engineers with a racing engine program and c) it would enhance the transfer of racing technology to production and production technology to racing.
    4) I have never heard any of my sources at GM say that the Katech which ran the engine program for Corvette Racing before it went in-house did not perform to GM's expectations.

    All of my difficulties with Katech stem from almost entirely from new products offered, policies put in place or decisions made
    after Katech's original owners, Fritz Kayl and Warren Frieze sold the company.

    I should add that not only did GM Racing bring the Corvette Racing engine program in-house but it brought several other major engine programs in-house as well as bringing a good portion of the NASCAR engine program in-house. All of this takes place at two locations, GM's Performance and Racing Center in Pontiac MI and GM Racing's new facility in Charlotte NC.
    Last edited by Hib Halverson; 04-03-20 at 05:24 PM.
    Hib Halverson

  8. #398
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    Thanks Hib. Hope you are doing well. Enjoy your new “Big Z” too.
    There are times for thinking, and times for acting, but the art is in the balance


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  9. #399
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    Shame on you Hib for taking advantage of Katech. I don't know how you can sleep at night. I'm sure they miss driving your car for thousands of miles while it depreciates. Now that they have some spare time on their hands they should be looking at consulting with a public relations expert ........ THEY NEED ONE.

    DH
    Likes Danny Boy01 liked this post

  10. #400
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    It's fully you say that, "Dirty Howie", because, at one time, Katech had an outside PR firm working for them. The firm is owned by a business friend of mine. A few years ago, Katech decided to take marketing/PR in-house. I think they should have kept the outside help.
    Hib Halverson

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbert View Post
    Thanks Hib. Hope you are doing well. Enjoy your new “Big Z” too.
    The "Bad Assed Bee", our ZR1, sits out in the carport under a cover. Last year, we drove it almost 15,000 miles. For this year, we had been saving that car for long runs with our Club or to other Corvette events but with so many of that sort of thing being cancelled, it continues to "rest". Our next long trip, the "Vettenet Southwest Tour" won't be until this August and that will take us over to New Mexico. Eventually, I have to do some work on it. I have different front and rear stabilizer bar mounts which Jim Mero recommended to take some of the limit understeer out of the car and I have a set of braided-stainless-steel covered Teflon brake hoses for it I bought from Zip Products. I hate the brake pedal feel. I've bled the brakes until I'm blue-in-the-face so I'm hoping they will firm it up a bit.
    Hib Halverson

  12. #402
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    Hib, i'd like to see what Steve @ Ketech has to say now that you proved that air filter setup was on the car when it left there shop?

    this i dont think will bankrupt Katech but im sure it will put a dent in there annual sales, i can tell you it stopped me from spending about $4k with them and a few local friends have also changed directions and are no longer wanting to deal with them.

    in the performance world we ask around research whos good to use hows there work to find a shop that is reputable before we spend our money, now you being in the corvette world for so long you clearly must have a lot of folks asking you about shops and products so how much did they loose from you not being able to recommend them? not one but 2 engine that left there shop had issues but some how its your fault because your air filter, plugs and tuning. in those pictured i didnt see any lean conditions, overly rich washed down cylinders or even detonation i did see signs of excessive oil consumption, i hope you learned not to use what ever plugs those was oh and that oil filter ever again lol

    warranty well even the big guys like GM and ford dont want you changing anything and if something fails right away its your fault but when things get legal they have to prove what ever you done was the cause of what ever failed witch in this case was not any thing you did it was the products they got from Mahle they even admitted it so its clear as day it should have been on there dime and you should have gotten a full refund on the second rebuild cost, again what ever tuning you did was to fix the mess they left you with lets get real IF you f'up both of those engines they WOULD not have installed a 3rd and cut you a check for $10k but they did so...

  13. #403
    New Member Pacha's Avatar
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    Hib, It appears your previous thread on the other forum is back up with most but, not all the comments under Katech Street Attack Z06 SN# 97
    "Would the child I once was, be proud of the man Iíve become?"


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    Pacha, hardly any of the posts are still there...

  15. #405
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    Yeah, I went back and looked a bit better and all my comments were gone!
    "Would the child I once was, be proud of the man Iíve become?"


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