• synthetic oil for midyear vettes?
  • synthetic oil for midyear vettes?
  • synthetic oil for midyear vettes?
  • synthetic oil for midyear vettes?

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  1. #16
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    Here is a link to SAE website search on scientific testing:

    SAE Search

  2. #17
    Member mcditalia's Avatar
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    While ordering parts through Paragon, I ran into an oil they sell called "Collector's Choice" which claims they have the higher levels of ZDDP that older cars need and specifically state not for use in cars with catalytic coverters. They have this oil in 10w30 weight. Seems interesting, but don't know anything about the product. Anyone ever have any experience with this oil?

  3. #18
    synthetic oil for midyear vettes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcditalia View Post
    While ordering parts through Paragon, I ran into an oil they sell called "Collector's Choice" which claims they have the higher levels of ZDDP that older cars need and specifically state not for use in cars with catalytic coverters. They have this oil in 10w30 weight. Seems interesting, but don't know anything about the product. Anyone ever have any experience with this oil?
    Ask them what the API Service Classification is - SM? CI-4? CJ-4? If it doesn't have an API Service Classification (in the circular API "target" symbol), it hasn't passed the standard battery of industry certification tests for automotive use.


  4. #19
    Member Kid_Again's Avatar
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    Not buying the story of your technical links to the SAE Website.

    I saw only one head-to head-comparative study of good dino oil under recommended conditions versus good syn oil under recommended conditions. I don't need to order the full article - I stopped when I saw it was published by researchers at Exxon/Mobil. That's not engineering, that's Marketing.

    The only point that I will concede is the article which shows that full syn is better for lubricating turbos. Makes sense, very high temps, cooking and all that.

    I'll give you the turbo advantage but are there any links to TRULY independent engineering data?

    Exxon/Mobil NEEDS your syn oil dollars NOW because the Obama Police won't let them raise gas prices quickly enough.

  5. #20
    Member Vettehead Mikey's Avatar
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    I've read the majority of the SAE articles. Not one of them shows any long term durability benefits of synthetics over conventional oil.

  6. #21
    synthetic oil for midyear vettes?
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    To borrow a famous quote,

    "Marketing, son, marketing - that's where the real money is..."

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnZ View Post
    To borrow a famous quote,

    "Marketing, son, marketing - that's where the real money is..."
    Absolutely correct John. OR, as Mel Brooks (playing the character yogurt in Spaceballs) said, merchansiding, merchandising, where the real money is made.

    Rich

  8. #23
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    Yup, just my point. Hey, EVEN Marketing people have to make a living. It's the "professionals" who sacrifice their principles and publish anything the Product Manager wants who should take a hike.

    I just finished reading Hib's really good article on our site about oils, lubrication and ZDP. Very nice review, and as I suspected YET AGAIN, the ZDP Marketing geniuses are at work selling as much of the stuff that they can scare into owners. I have one good friend who has a number of #match midyears (including his first midyear, a 427 roadster that he re-bought and completely restored) who called me up all in a panic about "zinc" disappearing from automotive oils. He's normally highly resistant to Markeing but did he buy a BUNCH of ZDP snake oil. This, from a guy who changes Mobil1 in his daily driver every 3,500 miles because he doesn't trust the label claims.

    Hib's article does touch on why synthetics are superior to dino oil in adhereing to metal surfaces. That's a fact, not a benefit. Gimme my dino oil and I'll be just as satisfied AND have more money in my pocket.

    Perhaps I would buy more ExxonMobil products if they ground up Osama bin Laden and added him to the feedstocks. Now THERE'S something that Marketing can work with.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcditalia View Post
    While ordering parts through Paragon, I ran into an oil they sell called "Collector's Choice" which claims they have the higher levels of ZDDP that older cars need and specifically state not for use in cars with catalytic coverters. They have this oil in 10w30 weight. Seems interesting, but don't know anything about the product. Anyone ever have any experience with this oil?
    If the oil is not recommended for engines with cats, it probably has too much ZDP. Much has been said about ILSAC GF4 and API SM not having enough ZDP but little is said about what happens when you have too much and the result of that is "chemical wear" of the cam and lifters. What I'd do is contact the maker of "Collector's Choice" and ask how much ZDP is in the product. If they refuse to answer, don't buy the oil. If it's between 1000 and 1400 PPM, it will work well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolisk View Post
    Not a C1 or C2, but my 1970 C3 is using Mobil1 10w30 High Miliage synthetic in my 350/350 flat tappet mechanical lifter engine. Mobil1's High Milage motor oil still contains over 1,200 ppm ZDDP (accoding to a recent article in Corvette Enthusiast).
    Actually, that's not exactly what the article said but it's close. Mobil 1 High-Mileage is the only M1 product suitable for use with pushrod/flat tappet valvetrains because it has 1000 PPM ZDP. The full text, in slightly revised form, of the series on engine oil and lifter wear which "Corvette Enthuaist" ran earlier this year is now here on the CAC at:
    Corvette Action Center | Tech | Engine Oil Deep Dive - CAC's Comprehensive Look at Engine Oil and Flat-Tappet Camshaft Durability

    Lastly, the post which started this thread was asking a question about use of synthetic oil in an older engine. The answer is "Yes". You can use it as long as 1) it's a synthetic with 800-1000 PPM ZDP and 2) you update rubber gaskets and seals to modern parts made after the mid-80s.

    Now...is there a performance advantage to running a synthetic oil in a mid-year? Yes but it will be very slight, in the neighborhood of 2-4 hp at high-rpm.

    Is there a durability advantage? Depending on which synthethic you use, there can be, but only when you run the car really hard such that sustained oil temperature in the oil pan is above 240 deg.

  10. #25
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    Sorry for the miss quote. . .was writing from a fuzzy memory.

  11. #26
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    OK, Hib you know your stuff but back up the truth trolley here

    Where did this stuff about newer gaskets and seals come from? Did I miss that somewhere? Not that I really care as I think my view on syns is PRETTY WELL DOCUMENTED HERE

    Funny, I never had a problem with my original, never re-built L36. Leaked like a funnel with dino, leaked like a funnel with syn

  12. #27
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    I just have to tell this story. I had a 283, 67 vintage, in my 60 Corvette, when I did my resto. Of course, I had to hunt down a "numbers matching" 60 283. Anyway, I ended up letting some locals use it, the 67 block, in their rusted out, 85 Chevy. This has been 5 years ago.....Dino oil, every 3 thousand, or so...... all year around, -20 below some days, and it's running fine. No zddp, no diesel oil, a two barrel carb, with a hand choke. hmmmmmmm? Ok, i'm back on my meds.

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