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AZMike
04-26-04, 10:39 AM
Well, the new house is nice, but there's a lot of shrapnel (sp?) around. Turns out I picked up a screw and a nail in my RR tire. I have the Michelin PilotSport ZP's on my 01. I took it into discount tire (the only place near the house with the equipment to patch it). They told me that since they had to patch it twice, the speed rating is reduced and I should really get a new tire. I have a few questions about this:

First, was he BS'ing me, or is theis really true?

Second, he said that my speed rating would be reduced to an H - this is 130 mph. Does this mean sustained speed, or max speed - I can live with a 130 mph sustained speed as I have honestly never set the cruise control above 120 :D

Are there any other issues I should be worried about?

The tires have about 11k miles on them - if I should replace it for safety reasons, should I do both the rears?

If it needs relaced, I'm going to lean on the homebuilder and try to get them to cover the cost. I've picked up exactly 1 nail in the last 5 years in all of my cars, and then 2 in two weeks - someone needs to clean up their construction sites and streets better I think!

warren s
04-26-04, 10:59 AM
My friend worked for Goodyear and currently works for Firestone, is a fellow Corvette owner and told me that ANY tire that has a speed rating looses that rating with any patch or plug. The first patch or plug that is. The speed rating is not just reduced, its removed!

Given that the average C5 will do 150 without breaking a sweat, I would replace the tire.

c5vetter
04-26-04, 11:17 AM
Why is it people spend $50k for a car and then want to be CHEAP when it comes to tires!? Replace the tire ASAP!

98TXRed
04-26-04, 11:24 AM
It really depends on the style of driving you plan on doing. If you plan on 120+mph speed, then replace the tire; if the speed limit (or a tad above), is the plan, then patch the tire. If I replaced a tire every time I picked up something from the Houston streets, I would be better off just keeping the Vette in the garage. Decide how you drive and act according.

Blade
04-26-04, 11:32 AM
98TXRed says it very well.

If you do replace the tire then I would patch it and keep it in the garage as a spare for emergency local driving!

AZMike
04-26-04, 11:36 AM
Why is it people spend $50k for a car and then want to be CHEAP when it comes to tires!? Replace the tire ASAP!Mainly because I just shelled out $80k on a new house 2 weeks ago!

I'm not being cheap here - I just want to know if this is a major safety issue. I really don't relish the thought of having to shell out several hundred dollars when I'm already strapped for cash at this time. If this is something that I can live with for another several months to a year - I would rather just do that then replace my tires every 2 - 4 weeks because of ongoing construction in my neighborhood. If there's no sefety issue with driving back and fourth to work, then I'm OK. I really don't drive above 80mph for sustained amounts of time very much anyway - but if the tire is unsafe to cruise on at 65-75mph, then I'll replace it.

Would just replacing the one tire affect my handling, or would it be OK?

cavettefan
04-26-04, 12:06 PM
Definitely have the builder pay the cost of the tire replacement. They are supposed to keep the job site clean and free of hazards. Most reputable contractors have insurance for this situation. You may not get the full replacement value; the insurance company will probably offset for the tread wear as a percentage of new tread - but something is better than nothing.

vettepilot
04-26-04, 12:19 PM
This sums it up pretty well.

Reprinted from a site where a Sears tire Tech 3 answered somebody's question regarding tire repairs and ratings after the repair.

Rules of thumb regarding fixable tire damage would be: the damage cannot be on the sidewall, tire bead, or within an inch of the sidewall on the tread surface. Sidewalls cannot be repaired, as the structual integrity cannot be preserved. Bead repair is impossible, since any modification to the bead would prohibit proper seating on the rim. Holes within an inch of the sidewall cannot be repaired due to the possibility of the patch "rolling" off of the repair and re-exposing the damage, or worse yet, causing a blow out. Tires are rated by speed. The higher the letter of the alphabet, the better the speed rating. Each repair done to the tire drops the integrity, and speed rating down a letter. Sears policy states that no more than 3 repairs to a tire can be made, and each repair must be no less than 3- 6 inches apart from each other. In addition, the damage itself cannot be larger and .25 inches on a repairable surface, in other words the tread surface within that 1 inch boundery on either side of the tire.

vettepilot

yellowvetteboy03
04-27-04, 09:52 PM
I have a patch on my 2003 LR for about 2 months now and it does fine on the highway running at 75-80 for up to 2 hours. I have even had a BFG R1 pluged and auto crossed on that tire an entire season with no problems.

cavettefan
04-28-04, 01:40 AM
And it is great that you have not had any failures of your patched tires. All the tire manufacturer is saying is that once there is a patch, we (the manufactuer) are not responsible for any consequences of continued use of the tire.

warren s
04-28-04, 09:33 AM
This sums it up pretty well.

Reprinted from a site where a Sears tire Tech 3 answered somebody's question regarding tire repairs and ratings after the repair.

Rules of thumb regarding fixable tire damage would be: the damage cannot be on the sidewall, tire bead, or within an inch of the sidewall on the tread surface. Sidewalls cannot be repaired, as the structual integrity cannot be preserved. Bead repair is impossible, since any modification to the bead would prohibit proper seating on the rim. Holes within an inch of the sidewall cannot be repaired due to the possibility of the patch "rolling" off of the repair and re-exposing the damage, or worse yet, causing a blow out. Tires are rated by speed. The higher the letter of the alphabet, the better the speed rating. Each repair done to the tire drops the integrity, and speed rating down a letter. Sears policy states that no more than 3 repairs to a tire can be made, and each repair must be no less than 3- 6 inches apart from each other. In addition, the damage itself cannot be larger and .25 inches on a repairable surface, in other words the tread surface within that 1 inch boundery on either side of the tire.


Interesting. I guess Sears has more experiance with Z rated tires than I thought.

That logic of one repair one speed rating reduced sounds good for Buick LeSabre drivers.

Blade
04-28-04, 10:49 AM
If you do replace both rears then post some of video of you burning off the remaining tread before replacement!

:s :Steer :s

AZMike
04-28-04, 12:59 PM
If you do replace both rears then post some of video of you burning off the remaining tread before replacement!

:s :Steer :s
Yeah - that was the funnest part of replacing the G/Ys last year!

Does anyone know if just replacing the RR tire will adversely effect handling when the others have about 10k miles on them? The tread is probably 30% worn at this point.

Z06nut
04-29-04, 07:40 PM
This is directly from Goodyear. The tire will retain it's tire rating with 1 patch. Any more than 1 the rating is gone. This is a letter to the service centers on how to repair a Goodyear tire.




TO:

Goodyear Company Owned Outlets
Goodyear Contract Dealers

SUBJECT: Puncture Repairing and Retreading of Goodyear Speed-Rated Tires (Includes Extended Mobility Tires)
With the ever increasing popularity of Goodyear Speed-Rated tires, it is important for you and your customers to know how repairing and retreading will affect the speed rating.

Accordingly, the following information will enable you to discuss these important subjects with your customers.

I. SUMMARY STATEMENT


REPAIR
A Goodyear speed-rated tire may be repaired to correct a commonly repairable nail hole puncture in the tread area only, but proper materials and procedures must be applied. INCORRECT OR IMPROPER REPAIR WILL RESULT IN THE TIRE NO LONGER BEING SPEED-RATED BY GOODYEAR, and the Goodyear warranty may also be affected.


RETREADING
If a Goodyear speed-rated tire is retreaded, it no longer is speed rated by Goodyear.

II. DETAILED POLICY - Puncture Repair of Goodyear Speed-Rated Tires


The puncture must be confined to the tread area only.
(See "Repair Area", item III-B).

Restrictions on the number and size of repairs must be followed.
(See "Puncture Repair Limits" table, item III-C).

A detailed repair procedure must be followed.
(See "Repair Procedure", item III-E).

A Goodyear speed-rated new tire repaired in strict accordance with items II-A, B & C, will retain its speed rating.
III. REPAIR PROCEDURE FOR SPEED-RATED TIRES

GENERAL
The objective of the puncture repair is to seal the tire against loss of inflation pressure and to prevent damage to the carcass from moisture. In all puncture repairs approved by Goodyear, the hole must be filled with a plug, and a patch covering the hole must be applied according to repair material manufacturer instructions to the inside of the tire. Never repair tires which are worn below 2/32" tread depth.

NOTE: No tire is to be repaired without first being removed from the rim.


REPAIR AREA
Repairing is limited to the tread area only within the outside grooves. No repairs are allowed in the tread area beyond the outside grooves or sidewall.


PUNCTURE REPAIR LIMITS

TIRE SPEED
(SPEED SYMBOL) MAX. NUMBER
REPAIRS MAX. REPAIR
DIAMETER
130 mph and over
(H, V, Z) 1 1/4 in. (6mm)


Tires marked with an S, T, or U speed rating, and tires with no speed ratings may be repaired in accordance with the RMA "Puncture Repair Procedures for Automobile Tires" wall chart or Product Service Bulletin 98-12 dated August 28, 1998.


MATERIALS

Precured rubber plugs - 1/4" (6mm) diameter

Precured patches

Precured plug/patch combi-units

Chemical vulcanizing cement

Pre-buff cleaner

REPAIR PROCEDURE

CAREFULLY REMOVE THE TIRE COMPLETELY FROM THE RIM.

Locate the puncture on the inside of the tire and circle with crayon.

Remove puncturing object if it is still in the tire.

Carefully inspect tire on a good tire spreader, with ample light, which will show any cracks, breaks, punctures, damaged or broken beads.

Check liner for cuts, cracks, or holes which may cause the tubeless liner to lose air.

Check the injury with an inspection awl:

Determine size and angle of injury

Check for ply or belt separation

Reject any tire that has separation, loose cords, damaged bead(s), or any other non-repairable injury.

If the hole is simple and round, steps 9 through 17 of the puncture repair procedure will be successful.
NOTE: If the hole shows evidence of fabric splitting, such an injury cannot be properly repaired using this puncture repair procedure. Such an injury must be skived out and repaired as a section (reinforced) repair, which will maintain the serviceability of the tire, but will invalidate the tire's speed rating. If a section repair is necessary, the customer must be advised, before the repair is made, that the tire will lose its speed rating, and must not exceed operation at normal highway speeds.


Use a pre-buff cleaner and a scraper to remove contaminants from the liner in the area to be buffed around the injury.

Use a 7/32"carbide cutter for 1/4" repairs to clean out the puncture.

Make sure that the drill follows the direction of the puncturing object.

Always drill from inside to outside of tire.

Using chemical vulcanizing cement, lightly coat at least 1/2 of the tapered end of the repair plug. Install the plug in the prepared puncture according to the manufacturer's instructions. Trim the liner side of the plug slightly higher than the surface of the liner without stretching the plug.

Center the patch (or patch template) over the injury without removing the backing. Adhere to patch or template instructions, as to positioning as related to bead location. Mark around the outside edge of the patch, approximately 1/4" larger than the patch.

Buff the liner and plug at the puncture location. The buffed area should be slightly larger than the patch. The buffed surface should be finely grained (RMA 1 or 2 texture) and even for proper bonding. Use care to prevent burning the rubber with the buffing tool. Do not buff through the liner. Do not buff into the marking crayon.

Clean the buffing dust from the tire using only a vacuum or brush. Do not use gasoline or other petroleum solvents on the buffed area.

Coat the buffed liner surface and the patch with one evenly applied coat of chemical vulcanizing cement in accordance with the recommendations of the repair materials manufacturer. Allow the cement to dry thoroughly. Do not touch the cemented areas.

Install the patch with the beads of the tire in the relaxed position. Position the patch over the puncture according to the markings on the patch. Stitch the entire patch starting from the center, keeping the strokes close together to avoid trapping air under the patch.

Cut off the protruding end of the plug about 1/8" above the tread surface.

FINAL INSPECTION - The repair must seal the inner liner and fill the injury. After remounting and inflating check the repair, both beads and valve with a soap solution to assure a complete seal.

Copyright 2000 The Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company, Akron, Ohio.
On-Line Privacy Policy.

Roadfrog
04-29-04, 07:50 PM
Now that I said it, no one else has to say it. I've been through this on a brand new set of Y rated tires. One of them got a screw through the tread two weeks after being mounted. I had it fixed with a "plug patch" by a shop known for selling and mounting tires on performance cars. They told me, yes, it would lose it's speed RATING. Note the word RATING. Is a RATED tire going to save your life if something goes wrong....not necessaily.

I watched the tech guy fix the hole, was satisfied it was structurally sound, and I felt it was OK (yes, I'm a risk taker). From that point on, the car was tracked hard several times, run at 160 once, and 145 or so many many times after the fix. The tire never failed before wearing out the tread.

Point is, I did the same as you did...asked a lot of questions, then made the decision the tire was OK. That's what it boils down to...you have to decide.;)

Z06nut
04-29-04, 08:32 PM
Call me a wussy but I'd get it done right. I've seen what could happen if a tire fails due to a small cut. It wasn't pretty. I'm one of those type of guys that checks everything before and after driving just like pilots would do. I don't only do it for my car's sake but for me and my family's safety. :)

wx briefer
05-14-05, 07:36 PM
Please allow my take on the sanctity of tires being only acceptable in the form and state with which they left the factory; airliners weigh a bunch, the wheels on the landing carriage hit the pavement from a dead stop to over 150MPH after flying through upper level air temps of -60 degrees centigrade. guess what....most airliners (maybe all) use RECAPS! (fact)


I have very little problem with a patch here and there myself.

cruzer99
05-15-05, 01:08 AM
Where can you get a house for $80K.
Here that's a down payment.:beer

gbik
05-15-05, 08:40 AM
I would complain to the homebuilder. (probably going to do as much good as talking to the nail) then get in the vette and enjoy a drive. The tire pressure sensor will let you know if you are losing air pressure. If the pressure in the tire is good I doubt the tire will blow out. Usually the things I worry about never happen anyway. bye