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View Full Version : I am so bleepin' angry!!!



01TriBlack
03-03-04, 05:33 PM
I just got my car back from the Chev dealer after having it brought in for some warranty work before the warranty expires. I bought the car from a Ford dealership about 45 days ago - this past weekend being the first I've driven it. At any rate, the drivers door is broken!! It needs to be replaced. At the upper hinge, if you look for it, you can see a large crack that widens upon opening - not that I've noticed but it doesn't seat properly because of it. One of the manufacturer's stickers on the inside of the door is gouged - it almost appears as though someone had the door open, backed up and hit something. The bodyshop guy said this could have broken the door.

Do you think I'd have any luck going back to the dealer who sold me the car? I would NOT have bought it (at least not at the price I paid) had I known of the damage. I could just cry!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the same dealer who would not deal at all on the price of my new car - gave me $14K on my '96 for trade and turned around and sold it for $21.9. Damn it all!!! I feel like such a blasted fool right now.

Ken
03-03-04, 05:37 PM
It won't make you feel any better now, but you're not alone. :(

Tom2000
03-04-04, 01:09 PM
I understand your pain. I was lucky the first time I took my car in for Warr. service I happen to walk around the car before I left and found that someone had hit the mirror. The dealer did fix it, but was not happy about it. Now everytime I pick the car up I look the car over and have found paint damage twice now.

sherry_ridgeway
03-04-04, 01:22 PM
Hi all
Please dont feel that way, car dealers {99%} of them should wear a mask and brandish weapons after the sale , I've bought 3 new cars in my lifetime and the story is always the same "not covered in the warranty" no matter if its a lightbulb or a transmission, You might coincider calling the better buisness administration, and lodging a complaint against the dealer for improper conduct
I hope you get the situation rectified
sherry:)

vette-dude
03-04-04, 01:32 PM
I'm a little confused.:confused Did the door damage occur at the Chevy dealer when you took it in for the warranty work or was it there when you bought the car from the Ford Dealer?? If it occurred while it was in the Chevy dealers possesion then he is liable. If you bought it from the Ford dealer and it was that way when you got it you're probably screwed. However, if the Ford dealer told you during the sales speil that the car had never been wrecked and there was no damage to the vehicle you may be able to haul his butt to court if he won't make it right. You may even be able to get ahold of the original owner and ask him if the car was in this condition when he traded it in. If not then the damge occurred in the Ford dealers possesion and he should have fixed it before it was sold. Don't go off half cocked at this Dealer. Try to get them to fix it without any fireworks. Take a friend with you to witness any conversations with either of the dealers. Good luck.


Randy:w

PS: Remember, he who gets mad first loses the argument. Keep your cool!!

01TriBlack
03-04-04, 01:55 PM
Hi, Randy. :) After re-reading, my post was confusing. Sorry about that. The Chev dealer is the one who noticed the damage.... I didn't mean to infer it happened there. I called the dealership I bought the car from (the Ford dealer) last night - and the salesman, of course, said they didn't realize the damage existed. In all fairness to them, it is easy to miss. I didn't lose my cool at all - in fact, I sounded pretty pathetic. ;) He said they aren't responsible for it but he would talk to the general manager about contributing to repairs. You know how far that will go - like nowhere. Well it was worth a try. I don't think they have any legal obligation to help with repairs - I just thought if I approached it in a non-accusing manner they'd feel sorry for me and help.

Should I wait until the fall before repairs? I know I won't be able to hand wax it for a time so I was thinking of waiting until a month or so before I put it in storage. Make sense?

vette-dude
03-04-04, 02:03 PM
Might as well enjoy it during the nice weather. I would contact the former owner and see if the car was damaged before he got rid of it. If not then you might have a little leverage to prove the damage occrred at the Ford Dealer and he should have fixed it before he sold it. Sounds like his rack boy may have backed into something and not reported it.

Randy:w

sherry_ridgeway
03-04-04, 03:02 PM
Hi, Randy. :) After re-reading, my post was confusing. Sorry about that. The Chev dealer is the one who noticed the damage.... I didn't mean to infer it happened there. I called the dealership I bought the car from (the Ford dealer) last night - and the salesman, of course, said they didn't realize the damage existed. In all fairness to them, it is easy to miss. I didn't lose my cool at all - in fact, I sounded pretty pathetic. ;) He said they aren't responsible for it but he would talk to the general manager about contributing to repairs. You know how far that will go - like nowhere. Well it was worth a try. I don't think they have any legal obligation to help with repairs - I just thought if I approached it in a non-accusing manner they'd feel sorry for me and help.

Should I wait until the fall before repairs? I know I won't be able to hand wax it for a time so I was thinking of waiting until a month or so before I put it in storage. Make sense? Hi mary,
for him to state that he didnt know of any damage to the door is plain silly "for the lack of a better term", All cars at dealerships are inspected upon arrival and washed and waxed and put on display, "espessally a corvette", I personally think that they were trying to take advantage of you because your a female, "it happens a lot belive me" I've had several go arounds with "midas" and a few other places that think that "girls dont know anything about cars" .It kinda freak's them out when they realize that everyone isnt a retard, "espessally women"..As far as the door be carefull driving it and watch for the bumps in the road and be carefull to not make matters worse until it can be repaired properly
GRRRrrrrr!!! now im P---ed off
sherry:mad

01TriBlack
03-04-04, 03:51 PM
Hi, Sherry. :D Yeah, they may have known about the damage - it would be tough to prove that they did, though. The fracture in the door looks very, very fresh. I know there was an accident with the car within 3 weeks of it's new purchase in '01.... but this looks awfully fresh to me (and to the techs at the Chev dealership).

Yeah, I hear ya about being taken advantage of because of being female. My memory immediately goes back to an $800 brake job (2 rotors, 4 pads) on my other 'vette. :(

bluecoupe
03-04-04, 04:09 PM
Call a lawyer. I'm pretty sure they are bound to disclose any know defects especially involving a safety issue like a door. People tend to tell the truth under oath. If they knew it was damaged before they sold it then someone will admit it in court. When your lawyer says he's going to subpoena the mechanics, car washers and sales staff. The dealer may change his tune and settle with you. It may cost him more to fight you than to fix your car.



$500 paid to your lawyer is cheaper than the repair. But then again you can also sue for legal fees and punitive damages. You may come out with a nice rebate on your purhase. Kick their a$$!



If you are short on cash then call your State attorney general’s office.

Rogue
03-04-04, 04:18 PM
I worked for a Ford dealership as a salesman for a while. If they made money off of you, they will be a bit more willing to help. Just stay on top of your salesman and if they say they'll "share" the cost, go for it. By all accounts they don't have to do anything. But, if you were a good customer and they made some $$ from the sale, they will be willing to help. I'm not saying they WILL help. But it's worth it for you to keep trying. As far as you know, that damage came from the original owner, or the wholesaler that sold the car to the Ford dealership, or your own Chevy dealer. So many have already driven your car it's impossible to tell at this point.

As a former salesman in a big dealership that sold both new and used cars, I can tell you that buying a used HIGH PERFORMANCE car from a dealership is risky. Riskier than buying from a private owner. That's because a used car is handled by dozens of people before it ends up at your dealership. And once it makes it to the dealership, unless that dealership runs a VERY tight ship, and most don't, just about everyone can take a "joy ride" on almost any car on the lot. I remember when we got an '03 F150 SVT Lightning in the used car lot. Everybody, I mean everybody took that bad boy out for a "spin". And I can assure you, it wasn't babied. By all means don't be afraid to buy an ordinary used truck, SUV, car from a used dealership. Most likely, those weren't really taken for joy rides. But when it comes to high performance cars, especially a 'Vette, a car everyone wants to drive, you can bet it's been abused a few times.

I know this isn't what you wanted to hear. Sorry about your misfortune. Just follow up with your Ford dealership and let them know if they help out, you will highly recommend them to everyone you meet.

bluecoupe
03-04-04, 04:53 PM
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury: Ford's Dispute Settlement Board provides an arbitration package for customers to complete and mail in their complaints. Normally, the Board limits itself to vehicles within the warranty period. The company complies with its Settlement Board's decision, although customers are allowed a rebuttal to the decision. Failing satisfaction through this arbitration, the customer can take the company to court. (Customer Assistance Center, Dispute Settlement Board, PO Box 5120, Southfield, MI 48086-5120, 800/392-3673, Lincoln: 800/521-4140, Mercury: 800/392-3673)

01TriBlack
03-05-04, 09:29 AM
Rogue, you made some very good points. Thank you for your input. :) BlueCoupe, I appreciate the information! Many thanks. :w

Mary

SPANISHVETTS
03-05-04, 09:53 AM
As a former salesman in a big dealership that sold both new and used cars, I can tell you that buying a used HIGH PERFORMANCE car from a dealership is risky. Bill Mars of ¨Billy Mars´ ¨Used Cars¨ in Memphis was a friend of mine, he found my ´63 for me. Bill had a deal with his friends, when ever he got something HOT and hard to sell in we could drive it as long as we paid the interest on the Floor Plan and keep the For Sale stickers on it. I had several Lotuses, a XJS, a GT265, and always keep my girlfriend in an Alfa Spider this way and as pointed out we did not baby then.

One of the guys blew the motor in an Europa so badly that a piston and conrod came through the side of the car. Bill just got the fiberglass fixed, stuck a Renault short-block under the Coventry head and sold the car on. I think he got sued every few months. I do not think that he ever had to pay a dime. Let the Buyer beware!! Tough lesson to learn; hope it works out for you.:Steer

brit_trader2003
03-05-04, 10:36 AM
I am from the UK and so am not entirely conversant with US Law, I will assume that we operate in a similar, civilised way. However in the UK if a dealer sells a product that is defective in any way then he is liable, there is no argument, that is the way it is. The fact that a previous owner may have done this that or the other to it is irrelevant. The Dealer is responsible for the vehicle at the point of sale. Of course the dealer will try to bullsh!t his way out of it but that does not change the legal position.

In essence, if this occurs then you threaten with legal action and that usually makes companies settle out of court. If not then take them for it. You would be surprised at how sympathetic the courts are. You have a right to expect a reasonable return for your $$ and if somebody is not playing ball then the courts will jump right on them.

Do not just deflate and think that it is the way it is. That is what the Dealers try and make out the situation is. The legal system see the situation differently.

Personally I have taken companies to court several times and always won. See a lawyer.

01TriBlack
03-05-04, 11:47 AM
I tend to believe you're correct, brit trader, when it comes to the dealer being responsible for the car at the point of sale.... in theory, at least - I don't know if that's so in practice. Here, when you buy a used auto, you sign an "as is" agreement - yet there is still a 60-day very limited warranty. I would imagine they will hang their hats on the "as is" status of the sale. I fear it boils down to a good will gesture on their part...and they're not too happy with me anyway because of a registration problem with the car (they wanted $300 more and I refused to pay). I am leaning towards contacting an attorney friend of ours who I'd ask to shoot them a letter.

By the way, I love the UK!!! Yeah! Scotland is my kind o' place!! :cool

Mary

brit_trader2003
03-05-04, 11:56 AM
Although you are correct in that to a certain extent the car is sold 'as is'. However unless explicity told you would be entitled to expect no serious deficencies in the car. A door with a cracked hinge is pretty serious and unless you bought the car knowing this was the case then the Dealer has no right to say 'tough'. I still say it is worth taking legal action. Often it does not even need a lawyer.

Black Bear
03-05-04, 01:39 PM
I feel for you. Just because you are a woman, doesn't mean you need to be taken advantage of. I'll tell you one thing, I know for a fact that if you are assertive and aggressive to a certain extent, you will be given the respect that you deserve. Men don't like it when women yell at them.

Go back to where you purchased the car from; keep pestering them to repair your vehicle and I would have it repaired NOW! Remember, this car is your pride and joy. Don't let your ownership be clouded by a butch of crooks.

Also, if you don't get the service you so deserve, there must be some sort of tribunal or complaint center that looks after this kind of problem if the culprits do not address their faults.

Let us know how you make out.

01TriBlack
03-05-04, 04:22 PM
Thanks, Black Bear, for your reply. :) There is always the Attorney General avenue - that usually strikes fear in the souls of any merchant. Someone else was kind enough to leave the address for Ford complaints - but this may be limited to complaints related to Fords from a Ford dealer? I dunno. The salesman said he'd get back to me no later than Monday. We'll see. A door is a pretty big deal in my view - it certainly would have been a "deal breaker" at the price I paid. Having something other than factory paint bugs me bigtime, too.

Have a great weekend!

Mary

mike weyman
03-05-04, 04:52 PM
If you had proof that the damage was on the car when they got it,you may have a chance saying that they are supposed to inspect the car before they sell it.especially if the previous owner says he told them.
you said yourself it was concealed damage
not being familiar with fiberglass cars, they would not think of checking doors.
you would have to prove they knew of the damage.
without proof it was there, you had the car for 6 weeks, god only knows who damaged it.
unless the lawyer is free, or the previous owner says the dealer knew, i'd put the money towards repairs. mike

01TriBlack
03-05-04, 11:53 PM
Thanks for your perspective, Mike. :) Could prove to be very valid.

Mary

KANE
03-06-04, 10:30 AM
What you have to do is track down the original owner. Get a statement from that person that either states the door was not damaged or yes indeed it was damaged. Either way, if the car was damaged at the dealership- it needed to have been repaired BEFORE it was sold to you. "As is" will cover your butt for only so long. Its called NEGLIGENCE. I would think that a broken door could be a safety hazard and definately reduces the value of the car in which you you have paid less had you known.

A dealership has an obligation if they are selling cars as being structurally sound enough to put a private citizen in. If they knew about it and they deliberately excluded disclosure it is fraud. Any ommission or missrepresentation of anything someone sells to you that would either lower the value or jeapordize your personal safety is illegal.

Why do you think McDonalds has to disclose the fact the coffe is hot to you? BECAUSE YOU COULD GET HURT.

Why do you think a lawn mower has to disclose the fact the blades are sharp? BECAUSE YOU COULD GET HURT.

Why do you think bicycles come with so many warnings? BECAUSE YOU COULD GET HURT.

Why do you think tobacco has warning labels? BECAUSE YOU COULD GET SICK (Cancer) AND THATS NOT EVEN 100% CONCLUSIVE.

It comes down to public trust and the fiduciary relationhip that any sales person has to honesty and representation of goods or services to be provided. Its simple contract law. "As-is" is has become a chicken**** way to cover your rear end if you are not quite ethical. Its a clear example of a good way to protect a seller from accidents (as is) and the evolution of malicious policy (not my problem- its your problem now).

Contact an attorney who specializes in lemon-laws or product missrepresentation.

01TriBlack
03-06-04, 10:28 PM
I really appreciate your post, DarkShark - it validates in a very articulate manner why a big part of me believes the Ford dealership should (ethically, anyway) contribute to repairs on my car. I guess what is making me scratchy about the whole thing is they would not budge on the selling price of the '01 (and it wasn't that great of a deal - I knew this), nor would they budge on their offer for my '96. In no way, shape or form would I have purchased the car with this sort of damage at the price I paid. Ya live and learn, ya know? Grrrrr.

Thanks for the great, well thought out post. :cool

Mary

KANE
03-07-04, 10:02 AM
I have another idea for you-

Every town that has a TV station has an "Investigative Reporter". This is the local guy (or gal) who will dig up stuff on local scams, etc. If you can get to this persn and present your case they may contact the dealer in reference to the details. That may help nudge your case along!

There's no press like BAD press!!! Use it!!!

smook
03-07-04, 10:32 AM
Another angle.

Take the car back and show the damage and state that you didn't cause this problem. Say that it's their problem to correct it.

I think that if the car does NOT meet inspection status for the road. They will have to correct the problem. It Toronto, Canada, it would be possible to take this car back since it would NOT meet inspection status.

Best of luck. I still believe you can correct the problem and charge the repairs back. BTW I would do the repairs now, so that it will NOT cause more damage.!?

Cheers!
Best of luck. Buying used is always iffy!;)

Black Bear
03-08-04, 03:00 PM
Let me add another word of advice to you. Take the vehicle to "independent" body shops who specialize in high end vehicle repairs. Get several estimates and send them the bills with a nice letter - registered mail. You should get some sort of a reaction.

Trust me, these dealers do not know what they are doing. Had my baby smashed at a "reputable" GM dealership in Brampton, Ontario. I had the car there because of the gas gauge situation. They did an awful job and after having the car there for almost a month, I took it off the lot. Terrible paint job; terrible work; and they had the gull to threatened me with legal action cause I was bad mouthing them...and the saga continues.

Look out for your interests and don't let anyone push you around. You've got quite an investment; take care of it.:)

01TriBlack
03-27-04, 09:48 AM
Just an update on my door "issue" for those that have been curious (which aren't a whole lot of ya, but a few have asked). The Ford dealer's agreed to pay half of the repairs, which is fine. The only caveat being that I had to sign a statement acknowledging they weren't contributing because of it being a used car warranty issue but rather they were contributing out of good will. Cool.

68Roadster
03-27-04, 10:55 AM
So is a new door in your future???
Good luck, I hope the paint and all comes out perfect. You deserve it after all this!

Cee

01TriBlack
03-27-04, 11:14 AM
So is a new door in your future???
Good luck, I hope the paint and all comes out perfect. You deserve it after all this!

Cee
Hiya, Cee! :w Yes, it's a new door - can't be repaired. Paint quality is a concern, but I'll impress upon them politely how important quality is going to be to me. Now I'm hating to part with it for a week - cruizin' weather just began. Have a great weekend, Cee. :)

Mary

sherry_ridgeway
03-27-04, 11:20 AM
Hi Mary
Dont let the paint worry you, they now use computer's to match the colors from a sample taken from a spot where it doesnt show, I had a surface crack repaired
near my front end and you couldnt find it with a perverbial microscope on a sunny day, please keep us informed "and yes a lot of us do care"
Sherry:)

SPANISHVETTS
03-27-04, 03:32 PM
The Ford dealer's agreed to pay half of the repairs As my dear old Granny always said, ¨1/2 is better than nothing.¨:) Talk to the guy with the paint gun in his hand and explain that you are going to show his work and mention his name to everybody in a 3 state area and that you are going to post pictures of his work on every forum. Sooo if his work is good he will be famous and his Ego can roll in self satisfaction. On the other hand if it is not up to your expectations he will still be famous, like Ted Bundy. If you are really happy with the work take the painter to lunch.;)

01TriBlack
03-27-04, 07:30 PM
Excellent thought on buying the painter lunch! Excellent! I don't know about actually going out with him, though....hehehehehehe.... maybe buying a few pizzas for the shop when the paint turns out better than I expected.

Hope you're enjoying the weekend. :)

Mary

01TriBlack
03-27-04, 07:32 PM
Hey hey, Sherry! :) Your words are encouraging. Thank ya, thank ya.

BTW: Where are those pics of your cats you promised me? Hmmmm??

Take care, girl...talk to you soon!

Mary

sherry_ridgeway
03-29-04, 01:04 PM
hey girl, I lost the proper thread LOLOL "gimmie a break" LMAO!!! I got a pic of reno but as soon as the cam comes out the cats/hamsters/jordy hides like a bunch of mice, I think its the flash and/or the way i sneak up on them , as you can see by reno's pic he really doesnt care a lot ..Just an old hound that likes the sun..Might be a good canidate for "caption this pic"...I'll catch the rest of the animules soon and foreward them to ya,
sherry:)

ron
03-30-04, 04:26 PM
I would think that if the car door were damaged in an accident, the force required to damage the hinge would be sufficient enough to show other damage to the door; etc, skin, finish. I would think that a knowledegable body man could certify that the car had been damaged, and his statement might provide some ammunition to refute the Ford' s "no damage" declaration. Just a thought.

Ron

01TriBlack
03-30-04, 07:58 PM
hey girl, I lost the proper thread LOLOL "gimmie a break" LMAO!!! I got a pic of reno but as soon as the cam comes out the cats/hamsters/jordy hides like a bunch of mice, I think its the flash and/or the way i sneak up on them , as you can see by reno's pic he really doesnt care a lot ..Just an old hound that likes the sun..Might be a good canidate for "caption this pic"...I'll catch the rest of the animules soon and foreward them to ya,
sherry:)
Ha! Reno looks like he's eggin' on a sneeze. The click of the camera probably fouled it for him.... meanie Sherry. ;)

01TriBlack
03-30-04, 08:04 PM
I would think that if the car door were damaged in an accident, the force required to damage the hinge would be sufficient enough to show other damage to the door; etc, skin, finish. I would think that a knowledegable body man could certify that the car had been damaged, and his statement might provide some ammunition to refute the Ford' s "no damage" declaration. Just a thought.

Ron
Hi, Ron. :) The hinge isn't damaged - the door itself is. Nasty crack on the inside. The Ford dealer's paying half. Funny thing: The statement he had me sign says they were paying for repairs out of good will - not because of a warranty issue...it doesn't mention half. Hmmmm. It goes in Monday for the replacement. Watch, it will be gorgeous weather while it's in and then rain cats and dogs when I get it out. New shoes are going on again as soon as it comes out - so another day of down time. I just want this thing done for the season. Enough already, ya know?
Happy and safe cruisin'!! :w

Mary

schmaltzr
03-31-04, 12:31 AM
I bought my 2000 Corvette with known problems. It was purchased through an auto buying agency and they were honest about the condition of the car. The only problem was that I turned down a 75K 7 year bumper to bumper extended warranty on the car for $2000. I didn't want to spend the extra money. I've had the car since July and the little gas guage problem cost $1350.00 and the little oil drip I had was another $460.00. I think I would have broken even if I had bought the extended warranty. I've bought extended warranties before and never used them......either way I end up loosing. I try not to think about the costs anymore and just try to enjoy it. I still won't park near other cars unless I have to, but it came with some minor flaws and I saved myself 16K off the original price. That's a lot of money that can go to cusomization and repairs. Good luck - Ron