PDA

View Full Version : Is it just me or ????



Mac
11-23-03, 10:03 PM
Did the General drop the ball by not bringing the C6 in the 2003 model year?
Hear me out...

What year was the first year? C1 1953-
The first major evolution in Vettes? C2 1963-
The midyear didn't last ten years (C3- 1968) but the last year with a chrome bumper? 1973-
The next major evolution in Vettes? C4- 1983, delayed until 1984-
The C4 ended up running long, so the next evolution was C5 in 1997-

So, knowing that the 50th anniversary was approaching, knowing the next generation was due, why wouldn't the General have it ready for 2003? Seriously, what a great loss of an opportunity!!

Gorgon
11-23-03, 10:14 PM
Who says that wasn't a goal and they just missed it?

ROCKETBLOCK
11-23-03, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Gorgon
Who says that wasn't a goal and they just missed it? ;stupid

bossvette
11-23-03, 10:20 PM
Who says that wasn't a goal and they just missed it?

I would agree, Knowing how slow GM moves It is a good bet that 2003 was the origional target.

UB2 SLOW
11-24-03, 08:36 AM
They might have made it if Bob Lutz had not sent them back to do some redsigning. Lets hope he made the right choice.

Mac
11-24-03, 01:20 PM
It's a pretty painful indictment of the General's design process if they can't put together a car with six years notice (1997 to 2003) even if Lutz asked for 'adjustments' by the dozen. When I saw that the 50 year anniversary special was just a rebadged C5, I must admit I was disappointed and I knew I could never afford one, so how must those people who could afford one feel?

UB2 SLOW
11-24-03, 02:38 PM
It's a pretty painful indictment of the General's design process if they can't put together a car with six years notice (1997 to 2003) even if Lutz asked for 'adjustments' by the dozen.

True, but his latest redsigns, delayed the car over a year. It does not take much to delay production when you consider all the other ramifications, such as parts, training, testing etc.

I agree, I was severly disappointed with the 50th. Great suspension was about it. The pain looked nice, but not that great.

Mac
11-24-03, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by sherry_ridgeway
hi
no mac i dont bielieve its you.."you seem to stay on top of this stuff more than most"..more than me for sure..
Staying on top of things is one of my favorite pursuits but not always possible. I gotta learn how to speed-read or start being more discriminating in my subject matter. Knowing the C6 is outside of my budget, barring a lottery win, I don't dedicate that much time on the subject. I'm glad this Forum is around as it gives me an opportunity to read dedicated material.

I wonder if Lutz sees himself on the scale of Cole, Earl or Mitchell? Thoughts?

Gorgon
11-24-03, 03:40 PM
The engineering team does not start working on the next generation car once they get one out. There is plenty of effort supporting the current model. That support alone, depending on problems to be resolved, can break schedules very easily. Look at the steady stream of updates and upgrades to the C5 since it was introduced; HUD, new wheels, Z06, suspension tweaks, Active Handling, updated Active Handling, new suspension, engine upgrades and updates, carbon fiber hood, etc. Let alone all the work that goes into TSB's and general support for all the Corvette Technicians around the country. These guys have thier hands full supporting the current car and I'm surprised the C6 is here after a relatively short model run by the C5.

So far it looks like a job well-done. We'll have to wait and see when it arrives.

Leon

tt-rexx
11-25-03, 03:54 PM
I don't think gm has ever made an annv.model that was more than just cosmetic. I also was expecting more from the 50th,but bought one anyway. I don't think i will be here for the 100th. the mag ride and the color are a notch above.

IH2LOSE
11-25-03, 04:48 PM
MAC look at the buesness end of it.

Sales are still brisk for the C5,
The aniversery model they figure will carry them over keeping up the sales figure becauses its an anniversery year and some folks will want an 03 because its the 50 th.(I had freinds telling me to wait for the 03 not to get my 02 (I am happy I did not wait) any ways 04 sales will suffer until the 05 is realised.

As far as I am concerned I will not be getting a C6 but hopefully getting the caddy when it appears. Looks like we will be waiting for the secound year caddy to get it more afordable all the dealers I went to are asking way over the sticker price not even knowing what the excact sticker will be.So I will be waiting for a secound year car

KREX 725
11-28-03, 05:58 PM
Remembering what happened to the '83 vette, anything is possible.

Mac
12-01-03, 08:20 PM
Hmmmm, here's a thought....

One of the reasons (in my opinion) the midyears are so popular is there were only five years of production. The C5 will be seven years of production. Will this make the C5 more collectible?

Tom73
12-01-03, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Gorgon
Who says that wasn't a goal and they just missed it?
Don't think so.

For the 50th Anniv they just wanted a cosmetic C5, not a new model. That way they can increase sales for '03 with a special 50th anniv model. Then come out the next year with a new C6. Presto, big sales both years :D I do think that they intended for the C6 to be an '04 model and did miss that mark for whatever reason.

tom...

invinceablevett
12-02-03, 02:56 AM
I think GM achieved their goals....That is to sell their anniverary models AND to keep futur buyers hooked for the new model C6.As one salesman told me after I managed to convince myself that the anniversary model was not what I needed..."Well son If you don't think it is logical to spend the extra money on the badging someone else will!".....He was right!...2 days later the convertible anniversary model rolled off the lot with it's smiling passengers aboard.I love the anniversary model BUT I felt like GM was ripping me off with the cosmetic add-ons(the mag. suspension is cool though.),so I passed. I'm hoping to get a C6 convertible but that is a big IF.....I still feel like the whole car industry is a scam and they try to take advantage of people's feelings.I was asked 5 thousand dollars more for an anniversary model before it got to the showrooms.When they realized that it wouldn't sell well they dropped the price...I know business is supply and demand but.........What happened to the those clients who purchased an anniv. model before it hit the showroom floors???....I bet they don't care because they feel as though those clients have the money to burn so what the heck!......Everything aside I can't wait to see that C6 and listen to those horsies roar!!!!!!!

Mac
12-02-03, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by invinceablevett
I still feel like the whole car industry is a scam and they try to take advantage of people's feelings.
There's no question this is the case. Cars are an emotional purchase rather than a logical one. In almost every case, cars are a descending asset and, for those rare cases of collectible vehicles that gain in value, there are costs associated as well.

I think Tom73 may have hit the nail on the head. Can you see 2004 sales keep pace with 2003? Everyone will be holding out for the C6- and who can blame them?

bkuper
12-02-03, 03:55 PM
GM has never hit an original release deadline for a new generation Corvette.

early shark
12-08-03, 01:19 PM
Mac:

Think you missed it by a year.

Mac
12-08-03, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by early shark
Mac:

Think you missed it by a year.
97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 03, 04.... D-OH! :duh :Buttslap

worldsoldestcorvette
12-08-03, 04:16 PM
[QUOTE][i]...I wonder if Lutz sees himself on the scale of Cole, Earl or Mitchell? Thoughts?...

I don't think he is Harley Earl...the following is my least favorite statement made by Lutz as quoted in the January 2004 ESQUIRE magazine...

"We're making so much progress in running vehicles automatically. In fifty years, only in the rarest of instances-and only when we want to-will we actually drive a car. They'll be autonomous transportation pods."
:confused

worldsoldestcorvette
12-18-03, 03:07 AM
Did that scare everybody off...?!?

<sigh>

Edmond
12-18-03, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by Mac 73
Hmmmm, here's a thought....

One of the reasons (in my opinion) the midyears are so popular is there were only five years of production. The C5 will be seven years of production. Will this make the C5 more collectible?

Mac,

I don't know if the C5 will be so collectible. We'd have to look at the total number of cars produced and not just the number of production years. Plus, the C2's were a pretty radical change from the C1's; whereas the C6 is more evolution than revolution.

Plus, midyears kick so much @$$!!!:L:L:L

LongTimer
12-18-03, 01:14 PM
All true of C2s PLUS, the C2 was offered in so many different drive train configurations. This did continue into the early C3 years, but due to Gov qualification of drive trains, we will never see the variety of engines, trans, and rear end ratios again. Certainly the 5 year only C2 body style is the biggest contributor to its popularity, but I think the drive trains give the potential buyer an interesting twist to consider.

Mac
12-18-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by worldsoldestcorvette
Did that scare everybody off...?!?

<sigh>
Apparently not... :L

I've had discussions (online and off) over the years about what it is that makes certain cars desirable and/or collectible. Certainly options, especially high performance options, add value. Today's models rarely have options like what used to be available back in the 60s. Production numbers also plays a significant role but there are still intangibles... things that defy explanation.

For instance, the Nash Metropolitan is, in my consideration, about as ugly as a wart on a camel's behind, were mass produced, low performance and had (to my knowledge) very few options. Yet for some reason, people are attracted to them. The Metropolitan has a strong following of collectors who dedicatedly restore these little monstrosities. Go figure!

More on topic, the ZR-1 was a limited production high performance option of a desirable vehicle. A decade later, people are still trying to decide whether it's collectible. I suspect it will be, particularly if a low-mileage well preserved one can be found. In another decade, people will be restoring ZR-1s just like they're restoring 67 427-435s now and, yes, clones will still be an issue.

Edmond
12-18-03, 02:25 PM
It is a shame that there aren't more options out there for people to get. But I realize that it's still a business and that's how they have to make money.

Then again, the aftermarket for performance and cosmetic parts is so huge that it'd be hard not to make a Vette' to your own satisfaction.

LongTimer
12-18-03, 06:13 PM
Maybe a masochist or two might try to clone the ZR1, but there is SOO much unique to a ZR1 - the special doors and rear fenders and cap. Creating a clone would prove very difficult. Also that Mercury Marine engine is not easy to find sitting around out of a car and can not be duplicated from a truck shortblock and some edelbrock heads.

Mac
12-18-03, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by LongTimer
Maybe a masochist or two might try to clone the ZR1, but there is SOO much unique to a ZR1 - the special doors and rear fenders and cap. Creating a clone would prove very difficult. Also that Mercury Marine engine is not easy to find sitting around out of a car and can not be duplicated from a truck shortblock and some edelbrock heads.
You're absolutely right but if the money is there, people will do it. For example, more than 60 of the original 16 1967 L88 convertibles have been authenticated by 'experts' as original. In many cases, these cars have supporting documentation. Are they all clones? Nope... but most of them are. Granted, the ZR-1 would be more technically challenging to clone but it'll happen- no question in my mind.