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froggy47
05-02-03, 02:35 PM
How hot do you get your oil before you do serious revs?

vader86
05-02-03, 03:48 PM
I prefer it to be above 180F before i nail it.

Mad-Mic
05-02-03, 07:44 PM
as long as i got oil pressure i'm good to go!

Ken
05-03-03, 07:07 PM
Not a good idea Mic, if you have an external oil cooler; you're liable to burst it. :eek You want to get it at least to where you can see a temperature indication on your gauge. ;)

_ken :w

callaway4fun
05-03-03, 07:09 PM
Callaway Twin Turbo's require the oil temp to be 165 degrees before driving in a boost condition.

Edmond
05-03-03, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Ken
Not a good idea Mic, if you have an external oil cooler; you're liable to burst it. :eek You want to get it at least to where you can see a temperature indication on your gauge. ;)

_ken :w

I believe coolant will be around 196 when that happens?

RedRagTop
05-05-03, 08:32 AM
I make sure the "LO" changes to a digital figure before driving the car and let the coolant hit about 60+ before hard acceleration. By this point the oil temp and viscosity should allow safe revving. Mind I keep all gauges reading in metric values.:Steer

c4ever
05-05-03, 08:40 AM
180 and not before:nono
carlo:Steer

Mad-Mic
05-05-03, 09:48 PM
Gotcha :D

prepass
05-20-03, 03:43 PM
My dad would only let me punch his ferrari after the oil temp was higher than the coolant temp. I use that as my guideline with my 87 and chevelle. On the corvette, this usually occurrs in the high 160's

Sone
05-21-03, 08:57 PM
Just got my Vette so I am conservative, but I wait till above 150..
before I would get on it.

:Silly

froggy47
05-22-03, 08:48 PM
That's a nice sig picture of your blue Vette, you should try & size it up a little though.

Robertwav1
05-25-03, 07:25 AM
I always make sure the car is hot before "gettin on it". 150 oil temp at least!

fore
05-29-03, 10:49 AM
I got around 180-200

grumpyvette
05-29-03, 11:17 AM
extensive testing by smokey yunick for G.M. conclusively proved that most engines make the best power in the 220F-240F oil temp range and that oil protects the bearings best at temps in the 230f-250f range,most mineral oils start to break down at about 260f so synthetic oil is the better choice if wide swings in engine temps durring competion are normal with your engine set up. do what you want to, but Ill take SMOKEYs advise gathered from THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF DYNO testing over theory any day!

Robertwav1
05-29-03, 11:29 AM
Hey grumpyvette,

A point well noted! I believe in statistical studies also.:)

grumpyvette
05-29-03, 02:15 PM
more oil system info you can use
the oil pump can only pump as much oil as the engine clearances allow at the max pressure that the oil pump bye -pass circuit will allow, and no more. for your idea to be correct (which it could be under some conditions)the oil flow through the engine clearances would need to be so great that the pump turning at 3500rpm,7000rpm engine speed(remember the pump spins 1/2 the speed the crank does)and most likely pumping at max pressure could lower the oil level to the point that the pick-up becomes uncovered or a vortex as you call it forms and the pump starts sucking air.


now under hard acceleration it is very possiable for the pickup on ANY oil pump to to become uncovered in a oil pan that has less than 5qt capacity and with no oil control baffles as the oil rushes to the rear of the oil pan if the pick-up is located in mid pan or under hard brakeing if the pick-up is located at the rear of the pan on a non- oil baffle controlled pan.
I started out with a Z-28 sbc oil pump, It failed to supply the needed oil volume in my racing engine, I swapped to a high volume sbc pump with 1.5" pump gears and it worked OK , but still failed to build pressure fast enough to meet my needs, now before you get any incorrect ideas, understand that a full racing ,(road racing engine) has several mods to inhance lubracation and needs extra oil flow, to keep the bearings cool durring some races that last HOURS not seconds like in drag racing, heres a few of the mods
The bottom of a Chevrolet distributor housing can be modified to spray pressurized oil onto the distributor drive gear. The extra lubrication will reduce distributor gear and camshaft gear wear. This is especially important when the gear is used to drive non-standard accessories, such as a high volume oil pump, or a magneto that puts additional loads on it and the cam. <P>When the distributor is installed, the bands at the bottom of the housing are designed to complete the internal right side lifter galley on all small and big block Chevrolet V-8 and 90 V-6 engines. If you hand file a small vertical groove .030" wide x .030"( <B>thats the diam. that crane recommends Ive always used the larger groove with no problems</B>)deep on the bottom band (above the gear), pressurized oil running between the two bands will be directed downward onto both the gear and the cam. This procedure is recommended for all Chevrolet engines no matter what material gear (cast or bronze) or what type of camshaft (cast or steel) you are using http://www.cranecams.com/master/images/groove.gif < keep in mind the groove MUST be lined up with the cam gear when the distrib. is installed , this tends to prevent cam/distributor gear wear

I GROUVE MY LIFTER BORES for extra oil flow directly on the cam lobes at all times, for more than stock oil flow.
LOOK HERE

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html

I also drill two of the front lifter gallery plugs to spray oil dirrectly on the back of the gear cam drive I use
I also drill and pin the main cap webs to spray oil directly onto the underside of the pistons to cool them.
that extra oil spray requires the windage screen and larger bbc oil pump
those mods have allowed the same basic engine to race for over 7 years with NO BEARING FAILURES even with frequent and almost constant 5000rpm- 6400rpm use for long periods of time, far exceeding the beating by hundreds of times the stress a drag racing engine sees. something that can,t be said for the engines Ive built and seen built useing the standard volume oil pump! the LS7 BBC oil pump supplies a rock solid 65-70lbs of oil pressure from 4000-7000rpm whether Im accellerateing, brakeing, or spinning wildly


BTW this info on engine prep and breakin might be of interest
first spray the contact surfaces with this ultra penatrateing moly-disulfide lube the carrier in the spray can allow the moly to soak into the metals surface,this stuff has been proven to coat the inside surface of rifle barrels and drastically reduce wear and friction even at temps of over 500 degs(F) and at pressures over 50,000psi,this forms your base layer,moly disulfide greatly increases the load and heat carrying ability of the lubericant and coating the surface with a layer of ultra-fine 20 micron moly before coating things with the lube gets the moly into the metal surfaces (check out the electron microscope photos) next use a good assembly lube that contains moly disulfide and/or zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate both of which greatly add to the extreme pressure and heat resistance on the bearing or cam lobe surfaces.
heres some sources; http://www.msmoly.com/ http://www.erspros.com/langdon/engine_products/28.html http://www.mrmoly.com/catalog.html http://www.schaefferoil.com/data/221.html
these are proven Anti-Wear Agents
These agents prevent wear due to seizure or rubbing surfaces. Compounds such a zinc dialkyt-dithiophosphate break-down microscopic hot spots and form a chemical filter which eliminates metal-to-metal contact.

also read this because the quality of the oil you use also has a big effect on how your engine wears during its lifetime. http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

REMEMBER WHAT YOUR TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IS THE TOTAL PREVENTION OF METAL TO METAL CONTACT, AND ONLY THE BEST ANTI-WEAR LUBERICANTS PLACED BETWEEN CONTACT SURFACES AND FLOWING INTO THE CLEARANCES CAN DO THAT !
BTW DON,T FORGET TO PRELUBE THE ENGINE WITH AN ENGINE PRELUBER WHILE TURNING IT OVER BY HAND UNTILL OIL FLOWS FROM ALL THE PUSH RODS ONTO ALL THE ROCKER ARMS BEFORE STARTING A NEW ENGINE! and make sure your oil and coolent levels are correct too!"

--------------------
then this http://www.dorianyeager.com/oilfilterstudy1.html
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

I know you already checked ALL YOUR CLEARANCES ARE CORRECT!RIGHT? READ THIS FIRST http://www.chevytalk.org/forums/Forum64/HTML/005908.html
ok first make sure the ignition timeing , coolent levels are correct, all the hoses are conected ETC and a good oil filter is installed, add a can of G.M. E.O.S. to the oil(G.M.part #1052367 )

ENGOILSUP

EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube
Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication.)

fill the engine with a good brand of MINERAL BASE OIL of about 10w-30 weight (VALVEOLINE, ETC. anything with a S/G or S/H rateing
next prime the oil pump while turning the engine over BY HAND SLOWLY untill oil runs out of all the push rod/rocker arms (if it doesn,t find out WHY BEFORE STARTING THE ENGINE) this is a good time to roughly adjust your valves if you have not yet done so. once everything checks outget the garden hose running if you might need it to cool the radiator and if you have one keep a fire extinguisher handy, check the float levels in the carb and fuel pressure is ok and fire it up with a timeing light on the motor, finish timeing it correctly and get it to at least 1500rpm-2000rpm and keep it at least that high for 15 minutes, if everything looks good take it for an around the block tour for an hour too 90 more minutes, bring it home, let it cool and change the oil filter(after 100 miles change the oil and oil filter again to mobile 1 synthetic in what ever weigth will keep 25lbs of hot oil pressure at idle, after you have changed to mobile 1 synthetic and broken in the rings and cam your ready to run the crap out of it at the 100 mile mark, by that time everthing is lapped in BTW I always stick four of these magnets in the corners of the oil pan sump , you will be amazed at how much metalic dust they pick out of the oil and keep from getting to your bearings,(either one works fine)
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet2.html
http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet42.html

or

http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet1.html


and I put one in each corner of the oil pan sump and 2 more in the other end of the oil pan but if you dont want to pull the pan stick them to the outside of the pan they will work that way almost as well! these are not your typical refrigerator magnets these WILL CATCH ANY IRON DUST IN YOUR ENGINE!!

synthetic oil has much greater film strength that it slows the lapping in of the lifters to cam lobes and rings to cylinder walls to a great extent, yes you can use synthetic oil to break in an engine but it will take longer and in some cases the rings don,t completely seal to the cylinders for about 500 miles while breaking in on mineral oil everythings lapped in by 100 miles or 3 hrs of running time. and yes constantly vary the engine speed durring break in but it must be in the 1500rpm-4000rpm window for proper oil flow/splash lubracation of the parts, btw this tool adds greatly to the oil flow to the cam lobes,
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/335.html
and read this


http://www.melling.com/engoil.html

http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
Im NOT recommending you rev your new engine to 4000rpm, I Am saying its ok to let a new engine get to 4000rpm MAX for brief periods OCCASIONALLY going from gear to gear shifting under light load as a max rpm level as you accelerate going thru the gears in the car during that first 3 hours or 100 miles and during the first hour of running time there is FAR MORE HEAT ON THE CONTACT POINTS AS THE RINGS AND LIFTERS LAP IN and those magnets I mentioned pick up lots of metalic dust, and that can get embeded into your bearings without those magnets. BASICALLY what your doing durring that first hour and to some extent the first hundred miles is letting all the high spots wear away and the metalic dust formed wash into the sump in the oil pan where its picked up by magnets if your smart or by the oil pump and hopefully trapped by the filter BEFORE IT GETS TO THE BEARINGS ETC.another reason they tell you to keep the engine rpms low durring breakin is to try to insure the oil filter bypass valve stays shut by keeping the oil pressure in the mid ranges to hopefully allow ALL the metallic dust to pass thru the filter,btw the main reason they tell you to keep the rpms at at least 1500rpm is because the cam is mostly lubracated by oil thrown from the spinning rods/crankshaft and below 1500rpm there is significantly less oil being thrown around in the lower block by the rotateing assembly and that the cam lobes on a flat tappet cam need to have that oil film on the lobes for the metal to lap in and work harden the mateing surfaces between the lifters and cam lobes. that tool I refered to causes high pressure oil to constantly spray on that lobe surface greatly increaseing the oil flow to the contact area and helping to prevent lobe failures, it also helpd spray extra oil on roller wheels on roller cams/lifters, look here at lifter #866
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/261.html
notice the oil groove! that is there to do the same job!

I will grant you that it is possiable for ANY oil pump to pump a good amount of oil into the lifter gallery at high rpms IF THE OIL RETURN PASSAGES IN THE HEADS AND LIFTER GALLERY ARE BLOCKED, preventing its normal return to the crankcase

, but running a high volume oil pump will have little or nothing to do with how much oil is in the pan if the engines drain back holes are clear and your useing a milodon style windage screen.
http://216.121.161.76/files/SBCOiling.gif
look closely youll notice most oil never gets pumped higher than the lifters before returning to the oil pan sump,
I have several times had that same complaint about lack of oil pressure under acceleration but it is caused by a non-baffled pan or the pickup mounted so close to the pan bottom that the pump cant get a good intake flow, if you carefully check youll find that on a dyno runs it seldom happens,because the oil is constantly removed by the windage screen is returned to the sump, most of the oil pumped into the system exits at the rod and main bearing clearances or at the cam bearings and from the lifter bores lower ends, its not the constant oil flow or lack of oil into the rocker arms that has the big effect on total oil flow as SMOKEY YUNICKS PHOTOGRAPIC RESEARCH PROVED YEARS AGO,its the oil flowing from the bearings and lifters and that oil flow is quickly returned to the sump by a windage screen scrapeing it off the spinning crank and rods as the spinning assembly passes over the windage screen. in effect most of the oil in an engine works like your timeing chain in that it constantly cycles top to botton and back never getting higher than the cam bearing lifter area.

now what does quite frequently happen is that the guys installing a high volume oil pump just swap out the standard pump, reinstall the stock or simular pick-up and bolt on the pan with the pick-up in the stock possition on the oil pump. the stock pick-up is mounted about 3/8" off the pan bottom,the high volume pump is normally equiped with impeller gears about .3 inches longer than stock, the high volume pump body is that much lower in the pan, resulting in the pick-up being only about 1/8" from the pan bottom. the result is that on a normal chevy oil pump pick-up this leave a space of about 1/8" x 2.5" for oil to flow into the pump. at low rpms this works but as the rpms climb the pick-up that can,t get any oil to pump, it cavitates as it spins and fails to pump oil, result oil pressure drops untill rpms are lowered no matter how much oil is over the pick-up. simply checking to make sure that anout 1/2" of space is under the pick-up when the pan is installed cures that problem (a simple trick is to weld a 1/2" thick nut to the oil pump Pick-up base and test fitting the pan BEFORE WELDING THE PICK-UP TO THE PUMP BODY) A QUICK TEST IS TO JUST ADD 2 EXTRA QUARTS OF OIL, IF THE RESULTS DON,T CHANGE WITH THE ADDED OIL,YOUR OBVIOUSLY NOT PUMPING ALL THE OIL INTO THE UPPER ENGINE,STARVING THE PUMP, YOUR HAVING A OIL CONTROL PROBLEM,THATS CAUSEING THE PUMP TO RUN OUT OF OIL,NOT THE OIL PAN TO RUN OUT OF OIL

what it comes down too in every case that Ive looked into so far is a improperly positioned pick-up or a non- baffled oil pan without a windage screen or less than 5 qts of oil in the system, not a problem of all available oil being pumped into the lifter gallery and valve covers like some people would like you to think.

the MELLING COMPANY HAS THIS TO SAY

Most of the stock automobile engines are designed to operate from idle to 4500 RPM. The original volume and pressure oil pump will work fine in this type of application. As the demands on the engine increase so does the demands on the oiling system and pump.
The oil pump's most difficult task is to supply oil to the connecting rod bearing that is the farthest from the pump. To reach this bearing, the oil travels from three to four feet, turns numerous square corners thru small holes in the crankshaft to the rod bearing. The rod bearing doesn't help matters. It is traveling in a circle which means centrifugal force is pulling the oil out of the bearing.

A 350 Chevy has a 3.4811 stroke and a 2.111 rod journal. The outer edge of the journal travels 17.5311 every revolution. At 1000 RPM, the outer edge is traveling at 16.6 MPH and 74.7 MPH at 4500 RPM. If we take this engine to 6500 the outer edge is up to 107.9 and at 8500 it is 141.1 MPH. Now imagine driving a car around a curve at those speeds and you can feel the centrifugal force. Now imagine doing it around a circle with a 5.581, diameter.

The size of the gears or rotors determines the amount of oil a pump can move at any given RPM. Resistance to this movement creates the pressure. If a pump is not large enough to meet the demands of the engine, there will not be any pressure. Or if the demands of the engine are increased beyond the pumps capabilities there will be a loss of oil pressure. This is where high volume pumps come in; they take care of any increased demands of the engine.

Increases in the engine's oil requirements come from higher RPM, being able to rev faster, increased bearing clearances, remote oil cooler and/or filter and any combination of these. Most high volume pumps also have a increase in pressure to help get the oil out to the bearings faster.

That is what a high volume pump will do. Now let Is consider what it will not do.

It will not replace a rebuild in a worn-out engine. It may increase pressure but the engine is still worn-out.

It will not pump the oil pan dry. Both solid and hydraulic lifters have metering valves to limit flow of the oil to the top of the engine. If a pan is pumped dry, it is because the holes that drain oil back to the pan are plugged. If the high volume pump is also higher pressure, there will be a slight increase in flow to the top.

It will not wear out distributor gears. The load on the gear is directly related to the resistance to flow. Oil pressure is the measure of resistance to flow. The Ford 427 FE "side oiler" used a pump with relief valve set at 125 psi and it used a standard distributor gear. Distributor gear failures are usually caused by a worn gear on a new cam gear and/or worn bearings allowing misalignment.

It will not cause foaming of the oil. With any oil pump, the excess oil not needed by the engine is recirculated within the pump. Any additional foaming is usually created by revving the engine higher. The oil thrown from the rod bearings is going faster and causes the foaming. This is why high performance engines use a windage tray.

It will not cause spark scatter. Because of the pump pressure there is a load on the distributor gear. The number of teeth on the oil pump gears determine the number of impulses per revolution of the pump. In a SB Chevy there are seven teeth on each gear giving 14 impulses per revolution. At 6000 RPM the oil pump is turning 3000 RPM or 50 revolutions per second. To have an effect on the distributor, these impulses would have to vibrate the distributor gear through an intermediate shaft that has loose connections at both ends. Spark scatter is usually caused by weak springs in the points or dust inside the distributor cap.

High volume pumps can be a big advantage if used where needed. If installed in an engine that does not need the additional volume, they will not create a problem. The additional flow will be recirculated within the pump.


http://www.melling.com/highvol.html
http://www.melling.com/engoil.html

ok lets look at a few things, pressure is the result of a resistance to flow , no matter how much oil is put out by the oil pump there is almost no pressure unless there is a resistance to that oil flow and the main resistance is from oil trying to flow through the bearing surface clearances and once the pumps output pressure exceeds the engines ability to accept the oilflow at the max pressure the oil return system/bypass spring allows the oil circles back through the pump ,now the amount of oil flow necessary to reach the furthest parts in the engine from the oil pump does not go up in direct relation to rpm, but it instead increases with rpm at a steadly increaseing rate that increases faster than the engine rpm due to centrifugal force draining the oil from the rods as they swing faster and faster since energy increases with the square of the velocity the rate of oil use goes up quite a bit faster due to the greatly increased (G-FORCES) pulling oil from the rod bearings over 5000rpm going to 8000rpm than the rate of oil flow increases from 2000 rpm to 5000rpm (the same 3000rpm spread) and remember the often stated (10 lbs per 1000rpm)needs to be measured at the furthest rod and main bearing from the pump not at the pump itself, next lets look at the oil flow itself, you have about 5-6 quarts in an average small block now the valve covers never get and hold more than about 1/3 to 2/3 of a quart each even at 8000 rpm (high speed photography by SMOKEY YUNICK doing stock car engine research with clear plastic valve covers prove that from what Ive read) theres about 1 quart in the lifter gallery at max and theres about 1 quart in the filter and in the oil passages in the block, that leaves at least 2 quarts in the pan at all times and for those that want to tell me about oil wrapped around the crankshaft at high rpms try squirting oil on a spinning surface doing even 2000rpm (yes thats right its thrown off as fast as it hits by centrifugal force, yes its possiable for the crankshaft WITHOUT A WINDAGE SCREEN to keep acting like a propeler and pulling oil around with it in the crank case but thats what the wrap around style milodon type windage screen is designed to stop)the only way to run out of oil is to start with less than 4 quarts or to plug the oil return passages in the lifter gallery with sludge or gasket material! now add a good windage tray and a crank scrapper and almost all the oil is returned to the sump as it enters the area of the spinning crankshaft! forming a more or less endless supply to the oil pump, BTW almost all pro teams now use DRY SUMP SYSTEMS WITH POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT GERATOR PUMPS that are 3,4,or 5 stage pumps each section of which has more voluum than a standard voluum oil pump because its been found total oil control is necessary at high rpms to keep bearings cool and lubed

NOW I POSTED THIS BEFORE BUT IT NEEDs REPEATING
ok look at it this way,what your trying to do here is keep an pressureized oil film on the surface of all the bearings to lube and cool them and have enough oil spraying from the rod and main bearing clearances to lube the cam and cylinder walls/rings. now a standard pump does a good job up to 5000rpm and 400 hp but above 6000rpm and 400hp the bearings are under more stress and need more oilflow to cool and because the pressure on the bearings is greater you need higher pressures to maintain that oilfilm.lets look at the flow verus pressure curve. since oil is a liquid its non-compressable and flow will increase with rpm up to the point where the bypass circuit starts to re-route the excess flow at the point were the pressure exceeds the bypass spring pressure. but the voluum will be equal to the pumps sweep voluum times the rpm of the pump, since the high voluum pump has a sweep voluum 1.3-1.5 times the standard pump voluum it will push 1.3-1.5 times the voluum of oil up to the bypass cicuit cut in point,that means that since the engine bearings leakage rate increases faster as the rpms increase because the clearances don,t change but the bleed off rate does that the amount of oil and the pressure that it is under will increase faster and reach the bypass circuit pressure faster with the high voluum pump. the advantage here is that the metal parts MUST be floated on that oil film to keep the metal parts from touching/wearing and the more leakage points the oil flows by the less the voluum of oil thats available for each leakage point beyond it and as the oil heats up it becomes easier to push through the clearences.now as the rpms and cylinder preasures increase in your goal to add power the loads trying to squeeze that oil out of those clearances also increase. ALL mods that increase power either increase rpms,cylinder preasures or reduce friction or mechanical losses. there are many oil leakage points(100) in a standard chevy engine.
16 lifter to push rod points
16 pushrod to rocker arm points
32 lifter bores 16 x 2 ends
10 main bearing edges
9 cam bearing edges
16 rod bearing edges
2 distributor shaft leaks
1 distributor shaft to shim above the cam gear(some engines that have an oil pressure feed distributor shaft bearing.)
so the more oil volume the better as long as that oil flow is totally under control, and that will in most engines require both a baffled oil pan and a windage screen correctly installed in a block with clear oil drain back holes if the engine is going to be run a high rpm levels, changes in the oil pump pick-up location in the oil pan of only about 1/8" are sufficient to noticably effect the efficientcy of the pumps abillity to effectively control/supply oil

BTW,YOU CONTROL the volume of oil flowing thru your engine to a great extent when you set up the ENGINEs BEARING CLEARANCES, and you CONTROL the rate of oil flow back to the sump by checking that all the drain back holes are clear and by useing a milodon style windage screen properly mounted about 1/8" from the spinning crank assembly, the oil pump pick-up mounted about 3/8"-1/2" off the floor of the oil pan and by useing a properly designed oil pan with matching oil pump pick-up. the greater the voluum of oil flowing over the bearings the more heat can be carried away and the more constant the surface temp. can be. and before someone jumps in with that old myth that oil flowing over the surfaces to fast will fail to pick up the heat from the bearings let me point out this chart
http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/images/clearances1.jpg

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/images/clearances2.jpg

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/images/clearances3.jpg
bearing clearances larger than about 1.5-2 thousands tend to flow more oil than necessary, making the oil flow back to the sump harder to control

Ken
05-29-03, 10:24 PM
Thanks Grump! :upthumbs

Jacob
05-30-03, 09:49 AM
100 degrees Celcius.

Bill94lt1
05-31-03, 02:12 PM
I won't get on it at all, until the oil temp guage registers about 195.

Alex D
07-24-03, 10:02 PM
Can you please reference where you read this? Book/article/etc. .....
Originally posted by grumpyvette
extensive testing by smokey yunick for G.M. conclusively proved that most engines make the best power in the 220F-240F oil temp range and that oil protects the bearings best at temps in the 230f-250f range,most mineral oils start to break down at about 260f so synthetic oil is the better choice if wide swings in engine temps durring competion are normal with your engine set up. do what you want to, but Ill take SMOKEYs advise gathered from THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF DYNO testing over theory any day!

larryfs
08-02-03, 08:11 AM
a more important question is what oil temp do you start backing off the gas.
300* or higher ???

froggy47
05-15-04, 03:20 PM
I've seen figures posted of 350 deg f & a little more (racing) and I don't believe that to be a problem temp (we're talking Mobil 1 or equvilant right?)




a more important question is what oil temp do you start backing off the gas.
300* or higher ???

Tom Bryant
05-15-04, 03:42 PM
Grumpyvette,

As usual you are a wealth of information. A question about the break-in procedure. After the 15 minute elevated rpm run-in you say to drive it around the block for 90 minutes and then bring it home and let it cool. What would be the best proceedure for those of us firing the engine for the first time in a non drivable chassis? Would we be better off waiting until we have the car roadworthy to fire the engine?

Tom

Ken
05-15-04, 04:06 PM
Damn Tom, Grumpyvette posted that last May. I wonder if he even subscribes to this thread still? ;shrug

Roadfrog
05-16-04, 10:35 PM
I don't hit the gas hard until above 190 degrees. I've run the dog out of many fasty cars, have tracked a couple over and over and over, and have never had an engine problem by following this rule.

It's not just the engine oil temp....it's the transmission and differential fluid that count too....IMHO.

froggy47
05-17-04, 10:38 AM
I agree w/ Roadfrog re: tran & diff. That's why it doesn't make sense to "warm up" your "car" by starting it & letting it idle in the driveway. Better to start it & wait 10 or 20 secs - a minute tops & then drive off slowly. Keep the revs down til engine oil temp comes up, then:D have fun.

redc4corvette
05-21-04, 04:30 AM
I hit it at 165 on the oil and 175 on the coolent:D

C4DC
05-21-04, 12:59 PM
How hot do you get your oil before you do serious revs?I was usig 160 and figured a good person to ask would be Dave Mc Lellan... Ran into him at the orlando NCRS show autograph session and asked him, and he kind of smirked and said as lond as there is oil pressure, it is ready to go right away. I still wait a while though...

onefast95vette
06-16-04, 04:34 AM
If you don't have at least 160 deg and you jam it you're going to damage your motor. Also make sure you have enough pressure. Perfect temp for drag racing is 185 on your coolant, and 180-220 on the oil.

craig0ry
06-17-04, 12:08 PM
as long as i got oil pressure i'm good to go!
that's how i've always done it. I start my car, wait about 10 seconds, and then I just wait till I have any kind of reading on both gauges. I don't think anyones ever lost their car for revving while the oil was still "cool". Long term damage maybe, but I don't think it's going to kill you to do it once in a while.

wishuwerehere82
07-16-04, 06:02 PM
I did try jumping in it once after about 2 minutes driving time. My lifters floated severely even though the RPM's were still fairly low. I always let it get to full temp ~ 205 before trying to get any serious power out of it now, if you can get power out of an '82.:L

invinceablevett
07-30-04, 02:09 AM
I usually let it warm up a little(1min. or 2) then drive slowly for a couple of blocks or more.............My Vette mechanic once had a Grand Sport in for a blown engine.I asked him what happened to it and he told me that the owner got into an argument with his wife and jumped into his vette.He started it up and jumped on the gas.The weather was a little on the cool side and he blew his engine.......talk about an expensive fight :( .

Patman
08-30-04, 09:44 AM
I like to wait until at least 180 before getting on it.

My oil temp never gets very hot though, most days it's only around 200-205 even after driving for a full hour. I've only seen it go as high as 221F in the entire three weeks I've owned it (I've driven 1700 miles though so it's not like I haven't driven very much)

wishuwerehere82
08-30-04, 03:22 PM
I just got back from Carlisle. 91 degrees on Friday and Saturday and never got above 205 on the temp gauge after 700 miles. They have real 94 octane down there, not that 93 ethanol stuff we have in NY, it ran great!

chevyaddict
08-30-04, 03:33 PM
extensive testing by smokey yunick for G.M. conclusively proved that most engines make the best power in the 220F-240F oil temp range and that oil protects the bearings best at temps in the 230f-250f range,most mineral oils start to break down at about 260f so synthetic oil is the better choice if wide swings in engine temps durring competion are normal with your engine set up. do what you want to, but Ill take SMOKEYs advise gathered from THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF DYNO testing over theory any day!
That is one heck of a long run-on sentence!

wishuwerehere82
08-30-04, 03:43 PM
There's a period in there after up .

'04 Torch Red
09-06-04, 12:38 PM
I prefer it to be above 180F before i nail it.
I agree.....:upthumbs

oldace84
10-11-04, 04:49 PM
Even with an after market oil cooler, mine still reaches into the 200's.

Runs great.

wishuwerehere82
10-11-04, 05:28 PM
Oldace84,

200-205 is normal for the L83 Crossfire.

74bigblock
01-06-05, 02:06 PM
So you must all have oil temp gauges then?? ;shrug


I don't. C3's weren't as fancyshmancy. I will get on it in any car after the coolant temp reaches at least 3/4 of the normal running temp. In my Corvette's case, this is at about 130-140 on the coolant temp. I figure the coolant has to be getting hotter for some reason! :Steer

Dave

74bigblock
01-17-05, 09:33 PM
So you must all have oil temp gauges then?? ;shrug

Dave

Anyone??

Anyone??

froggy47
01-17-05, 10:14 PM
Hi 74,


I'll post you back since I started this thread:)

My 96 & I guess going back a ways has reading for coolant temp & oil temp. You hit a button on the dash to cycle thru those & voltage (or all off I think might be an option)

Since oil temp lags behind coolant temp as they both warm up, I'd think you might want to wait a bit longer before you "nail it" on yours.

Of course once all your temps are up then oil runs hotter than coolant:)

If your coolant is 130-140 your oil is barely 100 degrees, that's not really warm enough to be flowing like it should for a redline run, don't you think?

Less you're kidding us?

Vettefan87
01-17-05, 10:40 PM
My vette with the 160 degree stat the thermo master chip, and the oil cooler the oil doesnt really get above 175 to often so around 160 is where I set the limit at I guess. coolant is usually around the same.

74bigblock
01-17-05, 10:44 PM
Hi 74,


I'll post you back since I started this thread:)

My 96 & I guess going back a ways has reading for coolant temp & oil temp. You hit a button on the dash to cycle thru those & voltage (or all off I think might be an option)

Since oil temp lags behind coolant temp as they both warm up, I'd think you might want to wait a bit longer before you "nail it" on yours.

Of course once all your temps are up then oil runs hotter than coolant:)

If your coolant is 130-140 your oil is barely 100 degrees, that's not really warm enough to be flowing like it should for a redline run, don't you think?

Less you're kidding us?

I'm not kidding. I don't have an oil guage, but I can tell you that in the time it takes to start the car (cold) back it out of the garage, put my car ramps down, and pull the car back up onto the ramps, the oil gets warm enough to be uncomfortable in tempurature to drain. I assume that by the time I've done a few miles with the motor under load... she's ready to go.

wishuwerehere82
01-17-05, 11:49 PM
It take my C5 about 15 minutes of driving before the oil temp gets to 185 degrees. The water temp gets hotter a lot faster than that.

grumpyvette
06-16-05, 01:01 PM
"What would be the best proceedure for those of us firing the engine for the first time in a non drivable chassis? Would we be better off waiting until we have the car roadworthy to fire the engine?"

first thing to keep in mind is you don,t want to overheat an engine, so letting a garden hose spray water thru the radiator to keep it cool is a good idea,and youll be fine running the engine that way rather than driving the car
next,
you should change the oil and filter in a new engine after the first few hours of run time to remove all the metallic dust the break in normally produces, and removing the cam lube and E.O.S. that may partially clog the oil filter
next
adding magnets to the oil pan TRAPS a huge percentage of the metalic dust durring a cams/rings seating/break-in

"Any source for the magnets Grumpy? "

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0001 (http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0001)

these are NOT REFRIGERATOR [b]magnets "#0001" can pick up a SBC cylinderhead, and you wont beleive the amount of crud they remove from your oil and prevent from reaching the bearings
2003 ForceField
Email us
toll free (877)944-6247 or (970)484-7257
Also, you can visit us at our retail store in Fort Collins, Colorado, USA at 614 South Mason Street!
Ive been installing 4 of these lately in the corners of the oil pan sump,nothing magnetic (metallic dust from engine wear, assorted trash,etc.)can get past them, I also sometimes install one near the rear oil drain in each head to collect broken valve train shrapnel in case of a failure to limit damage on race engines. btw if you dont want to install them inside the sump you can J&B weld them to the outside of the oil pan permently or just place them there if you want them removable,TRUST ME THEY WON,T FALL OFF ON THIER OWN attached to the steel oil pan sump

NEXT
I normally pour it in just before starting the engines cam break in,procedure. because I want to make sure that nothing in the oil/E.O.S. mix can settle out from sitting over a long period of time. now if your running a flat tappet cam you should have also used a moly cam lube on the lobes and be useing a mineral base oil for the break-in procedure, and youll need to do an oil and filter change after about the first 3-4 hours running time to remove that moly cam lube from the engine after its served its purpose of protecting the cams lobes and lifters at start up, aND AS THE LOBES/LIFTERS LAPPED IN. MOSTLY to prevent that moly grease and E.O.S from potentially partially clogging the filter after that mix cools down,but also because both those lubes might leave deposites in the combustion chamber ,over time that might aggravate detonation.
even G.M. suggests that E.O.S. is not a great long term oil suppliment, and that its main function is to add extra oil film strength durring new engine break in.
1052367
ENGOILSUP
EOS - Engine Assembly Prelube<BR>Specifically formulated as an engine assembly lubricant. E.O.S. provides outstanding protection against run-in wear and piston scuffing as well as run-in camshaft lobe and lifter scuffing resulting from insufficient lubrication http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/part_images/1052367.jpg
don,t forget a few magnets in the oil pan goes a long way towards trapping unwanted metalic dust formed from the cam and rings lapping in durring break-in that might otherwise get imbedded in your bearings or cause other problems
heres the magnets I use in every engine
http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0035

btw this may help

http://www.amsoil.com/images/graphs/hs806.jpg
http://www.amsoil.com/images/graphs/hs806capacity.jpg
http://www.amsoil.com/graphs/sdf_tier_comparison_500px.jpg

http://performanceunlimited.com/illustrations/img215.gif

this chart (above)is COOLANT TEMP NOT OIL TEMP,OIL TEMP. SHOULD BE 20F-30F higher for IDEAL LUBRICATION
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

hardnoks
06-16-05, 01:24 PM
i was told by Greg Carroll,of Carroll supercharging,when i picked up my 95 after he did all my work to not get on it till 180 or above,and i've stuck w/that ever since.

Tom Bryant
06-16-05, 05:16 PM
Thanks grumpyvette. More great advice as usual.

Tom

grumpyvette
06-16-05, 05:26 PM
glad to help out!

Gary Melton
03-24-06, 08:32 PM
As a retired auto and aircraft gearhead, what can I say. In the past I broke-in my auto race engines before starting them up for the first time. The system of pulling the plugs, two teaspoons of Marvel Mystery Oil in each cylinder & pully cranking the engine at 500 rpm's for one minute then 1000 r's for another 30 seconds to one minute is old chrome-ring technology. I don't race or build anymore so it's good to hear some thoughts about today's world of gear-heads.
Gary


Grumpyvette,

As usual you are a wealth of information. A question about the break-in procedure. After the 15 minute elevated rpm run-in you say to drive it around the block for 90 minutes and then bring it home and let it cool. What would be the best proceedure for those of us firing the engine for the first time in a non drivable chassis? Would we be better off waiting until we have the car roadworthy to fire the engine?

Tom

grumpyvette
05-07-06, 06:03 PM
theres not a single reason , you need to wait till its drivable, simply make sure the oil levels correct,the radiators full of coolant and the fan belts are tight, the ignition timings correct,the valves are correctly adjusted and have a fan blow on the radiator, and A GARDEN HOSE RUNNING SIGNIFCANT AMOUNTS OF WATER OVER/THRU the RADIATORS fins ,the combo will remove heat fast enought that the engines not going to overheat if its tuned correctly

Galen
02-12-07, 05:16 PM
Not sure why you guys have such hi heat in your oil. With synthetic and a clean cooler it should run no more than 10-20 degres more than the coolant unless you are running it hard. 150 is a good start. Do you think race engines get the oil that hot before they run. Heat will make it flow easier but even NASCAR uses light oil for qualifing.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/Galen58/all/MVC-144X.jpg

c4black92
06-09-07, 08:30 PM
So oil temp of 200 (Mobile 1) and coolant temp of 197 on an LT1 is normal? good? or not hot enough? Where should the guage be reading at these conditions? In the middle of the guage?

schmaltzr
09-17-07, 10:32 PM
I don't get on it until I see it at least at 190. I also don't back out of the garage until the pressure stabilizes for about 10 seconds. I don't want to put any load on the bearings until I know they are well oiled.