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View Full Version : Warning! Article in new Motor Trend not very nice for us



asphaltguy
02-26-12, 08:33 AM
Hello guys ,I just finnished reading an article in motor trend.It told the truth about driving our cars in the rain.Also about how outdated and cheap things are compared to others. But we just pay for it and dont say anything.It says future cars on the front of the new magazine.I have both cars that was tested,so I wont rant or rave about either but alot is very true in the article.Thanks

tonyman262
02-27-12, 05:42 AM
I read the article twice and while I was not impressed by the reviewer's obvious bias, these are exactly the kind of things that need to be said. Oh...I forgot every one of the negatives mentioned have been said many times before in this very forum and others I've participated in.

Wet weather performance and less than top notch interior was the theme for this article. Did anybody within reading distance of this forum not already know this to be true.

The author says "Before you start canceling your subscriptions en masse, we know the price differential between these two cars (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/#) is extreme."

With a base price of $56,900 vs $97,350 and an as driven price of $72,130 vs $131,760; extreme is one of the things I will agree with. Let me see, $15K worth of upgrades vs $34K...

Let me see...$131,760 - $72,130 = $59,630.
Wow, the base coupe is listed on Chevy's website at $49.6K

Somehow I think using the Grand Sport for the comparision was a bit disingenuous at the very least. I went out to the Chevy website and priced out a 2012 ZR1 3ZR with all of the non-dealer installed options that I would want and maxed out at $122,575.
I was still more than $9,000 less than the Porsche used in the article. At that price differential I could certainly buy a spare set of wheels and all weather tires for the cold months.

Before we even get to the ZR1, how about testing that same $131k Porsche against a relatively lowly priced $87K Z06 3LZ.

With all that being said, it is very obvious that this was not an apples to apples comparison.


BUT...there are some take-aways from the article.
The C6, for all that it is, it's working with 5-7 year old technology.

We all know for a fact that Corvettes with stock tires and wet weather don't play well together.

We all also know the cabin seating and materials need to be better.

We all know the cabin electronics could stand being brought into the current century. The HUD, navigation, and entertainment systems are very old school.

While it's one thing to totally discount the obviously biased article on the one hand; on the other hand any car now days that cost $50K to 117K before options is a ripoff with electronics that are offered for this car. At these prices, Corvette owners need to demand better.

For all of you guys that insist that 1/4 mile or 0-60 times are the only metrics, then I suggest you get a vehicle that is truely track ready. Get a vehicle that has anything that doesn't contribute to those metrics ripped out of the car.

Remember the Corvette is also a PRODUCTION CAR.
One of the concerns now is how long can GM afford to produce a car with so few unites sold. If we want this car to continue it also needs to appeal to a larger market.

Some of you guys sound like my father. I bought my parents a computer. My mother uses it all the time and she has no more education then he does. It is a matter of attitude. The willingness to embrace innovation. My dad on the other hand wouldn't touch it with a pole. But he is quick to get her search for this or that when he wants to know something.

You guys can stay stuck in the mud if you want to; strap a big ol' motor on a buckboard and call it a day. For my $60k - $90k I believe I'll demand more.

My first computer monitor back in the 80's was the same color green and the HUD in my 07 C6.
Does GM have something against full color displays?

Here in Vegas the law as of January 2012 mandates hands-free cell phone use. Almost any vehicle @ 30K or more offers fully integrated sounds, navigation, phone and entertainment systems.
And I don't mean just an incomplete connection to an Apple iPod.
You guys can belittle the idea of better creature comforts all you want. $60k+ should get you more than the fastest car between red lights.

I live in Las Vegas so I don't have to worry much about wet weather, besides I know how to get different tires. But, by the same token when a Ford Taurus comes with better interior features then perhaps we need to rethink a few things.

No, I'm not so concerned with one author's biased opinion.
I am more concerned with insisting the Corvette we love is the best car it can be.

1analguy
06-01-12, 04:01 AM
...My first computer monitor back in the 80's was the same color green and the HUD in my 07 C6.
Does GM have something against full color displays?...

I agree with most of your points, but we should be fair to GM on this one. Both your early computer monitors and the HUD in your C6 are that same color green because human visual acuity is at its peak in that portion of the color spectrum. That means that less brightness is required for you to see it clearly, and that your eyes can view it longer without getting tired. The instrument lights in most old cars were that color for the same reason. Sometimes old, simple things are actually functionally better than the latest marketing-driven, whiz-bang, flashy stuff that we've been told that we really should want...

catbert
06-01-12, 12:19 PM
The Corvette has always been a cost - compromised effort. For decades, the Vette has provided high, or ultra-high performance on a shoe string as compared to almost any of the competition. We all like to point out that you have to spend double the cost of a Vette to match the performance it provides. It's all true.

Now for reality. GM doesn't have a magic wand that enables them to make super cars on the cheap. Price IS an objectective. The GM parts bins are raided very thoroughly. Every part that can be developed across platforms are utilized. If the Vette's content was Vette exclusive, it would cost what the competition costs. Imagine the manpower needed to design and produce every little piece on the car. How about seats, and interior trim? The only thing between the Vette and Recarro seats, glove leather and the other bells and whistles is about twenty grand. So, as much as I fault the General on many issues, it doesn't change the fact you get what you pay for. I would guess that GM has done a cost-benefit analysis on improving most of the things we constantly bitch about.

So go check out the performance equals of the Vette and figure out whether the content/quality is worth another 40 - 60 grand or more. And while you're at it figure parts and maintenance costs.

1analguy
06-01-12, 07:43 PM
Again, well said...:thumb

67vet
06-01-12, 08:38 PM
What is so great about the dash/interior of the 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S?
It has been said that the Corvette is "dated".
What would update the Corvette interior? I hope to not look like a Porsche 911 or a Caddy SVS.
The interior on an SL65 has been around for years and it costs way more than crazy money.
The yellow or red dials on a Ferrari are distracting.
Would the dash of a Mini Cooper be "Cool"?
There are only so many ways you can put a speedometer and tach in front of the driver.
What changes would be made to update the Corvette interior? :w

67vet
06-03-12, 12:10 AM
Porsche Cayman S - the dash in front of the steering wheel is painted. You can see paint chips along the edge. Also the shift knob and the center tray has chips. I got to listen to two Cayman owners complaining about paint chips and other disappointments in quality.

Everybody has problems.

catbert
06-04-12, 07:56 AM
I'm sure you are wrong. It must be perfect - it's German, AND a Porsche.:beer

midyearroadster427
06-04-12, 11:40 AM
I stopped reading most the magazines yrs ago, when they made the Toyota seem like the only car in the world one should purchase...our car magazines became the imoport magazines.

Now I am one of those old people I guess, I went from a midyear to a C6...to me its amazing technology. I love my heated seats and the leather seats are ok to me. I really dont sit in my car an feel the softness of the leather, I put my old arse on the seat and drive the car. Maybe the leather quality is better in those other cars, maybe there is more fit and finnish...it really does not matter to me. Porsche has look the same since I was a kid....subtle tweeks but its the same to me. I remember when the Viper came out to go against the Vette...talk about spartan interior and no creature comforts at all...and you paid $30 G's plus more for it.... We all of course want better improvements, technology etc as stated above, so as consumers we should voice our opinons to our Brand reps and engineers when we see them. Constructive ideas and opinions should always be listened to by the Corporate Heads that be.

I knew what I was buying before I bought it, so I have no complaints what so ever...I am happy with the performance of the car, and thrilled at my gas mileage when I go on trips...not many vehicles in this catagory can match the Vette that way my friends. I do not want a buckboard with a motor strapped on it, I have one already with my 67 BB vert..the 12 is an amazing vehicle...period..ty

ibramson
10-02-12, 11:03 AM
I stopped reading most the magazines yrs ago, when they made the Toyota seem like the only car in the world one should purchase...our car magazines became the imoport magazines.

Now I am one of those old people I guess, I went from a midyear to a C6...to me its amazing technology. I love my heated seats and the leather seats are ok to me. I really dont sit in my car an feel the softness of the leather, I put my old arse on the seat and drive the car. Maybe the leather quality is better in those other cars, maybe there is more fit and finnish...it really does not matter to me. Porsche has look the same since I was a kid....subtle tweeks but its the same to me. I remember when the Viper came out to go against the Vette...talk about spartan interior and no creature comforts at all...and you paid $30 G's plus more for it.... We all of course want better improvements, technology etc as stated above, so as consumers we should voice our opinons to our Brand reps and engineers when we see them. Constructive ideas and opinions should always be listened to by the Corporate Heads that be.

I knew what I was buying before I bought it, so I have no complaints what so ever...I am happy with the performance of the car, and thrilled at my gas mileage when I go on trips...not many vehicles in this catagory can match the Vette that way my friends. I do not want a buckboard with a motor strapped on it, I have one already with my 67 BB vert..the 12 is an amazing vehicle...period..ty


I waited most of a lifetime to get my first corvette. I did what most of you would consider wasting lots of money because I bought my GS with the 4LT package. I optioned this baby to the ceiling even with OUTDATED electronics. I do not care. I love the car. It's scary fast and if this is the "little" V8, the other two engines would be off the charts. I ignored the Motor Trend article because it was clear that the comparison was nonsensical and the author was a biased blowhard. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I love looking at, driving, and maintaining my 2012 MT6 GS coupe in crystal red metallic. I am technically one of the OLD GUYS driving a vette. But for the record, I do not own a gold chain. I piss off mustangs and chargers because I will not waste expensive gas drag racing them. For the most part, I know my car is quicker than theirs and know how to drive it to win if I have to. But I value my safe driver rating on my car insurance too much. I have never owned a car with an engine that pulls so hard up to the redline. At a 30 mph roll in 2nd gear, I get wheel spin with all the traction management ON. It's nuts! Lastly, I am very glad that I do not waste my money on a Motor Trend subscription. Opinions are like backsides. Everyone seem to have one.

Huskerman
10-02-12, 12:14 PM
Ya...what ibramson said.....I just took my car out to Denver last week and can't say enough good about the driving expieriance of the whole trip. Anytime I stopped people would give me positive feedback on the car. For me the Grand Sport is the perfect car and I think I better get out and drive it on this great day.....:happyanim:

Vinny072
10-07-12, 12:33 PM
I could care less what a magazine has to say. I have owned many different "flashy" cars. 2012 GT500 2010 M3 2008 M5 2010 Camaro SS. Bottom line I have never gotten more compliments then I have with my 2012 inferno orange grand sport. There is something about a corvette that generates strong feelings and gets people excited.

ibramson
10-07-12, 03:00 PM
I could care less what a magazine has to say. I have owned many different "flashy" cars. 2012 GT500 2010 M3 2008 M5 2010 Camaro SS. Bottom line I have never gotten more compliments then I have with my 2012 inferno orange grand sport. There is something about a corvette that generates strong feelings and gets people excited.

You are right in that a vette gets attention. Adults as well as kids give me the thumbs up when they see the car. Vettes are sexy looking and let's face it, there are fewer vettes on the road than mustangs. Mustangs are everywhere. I could have easily afforded a GT500 with a much bigger engine and bragging rights about the horsepower. But I chose the more expensive vette with all of the "shortcomings" in the Morortrend article. Although I speak German, I drive American. Life's about choices and I made mine. I am not sorry.

jrbartholomew
10-07-12, 06:14 PM
most people that argue about high end cars cant afford one anyways i know i cant, chevy made a sportscar almost any can get in to. 20000 $ for an 03 for what i wanted and could easily afford how great is that. this is our 3rd vette we really enjoy the car and other vette people. im always amazed at folks who drive some small foreign compact ask me why i didnt get a Porsche or Ferrari . chevy did a great thing a car working folks could get. but if you want something really fast pay more and go zr1 if you want. we at least we have a choice
jeff

Dadman1950
10-08-12, 11:11 PM
I'm sure you are wrong. It must be perfect - it's German, AND a Porsche.:beer

I grew up reading Car&Driver, Road&Track, and Motor Trend. Couldn't wait until the new issues came out each month. There was sure to be a great article on American Muscle and they were always quick to point out that American muscle was the standard of the world. Then in the seventies it became cool to taut the "superior" European automobiles. It gave the reporters a sense of "worldliness" in at least their own mind. And yes we know about the quality issues that occurred in the seventies and eighties but that "elitist" viewpoint of several automotive writers hung on and when most of the quality issues were resolved they still couldn't let it go. Let's face it in the 70's and 80's, without the almost monthly C3 and C4 Corvette vs 911 comparison those magazines would have gone out business. Who the hell (can you say hell on a forum? IDK) wanted to read about Volvos. Even Volvo owners would fall alseep reading about them. And I cannot remember one comparison during those years when a Corvette won a magazine comparison with a Porsche (except possibly with the intorduction of the ZR1). But you know what? I didn't care. I know there were somed issues with the C3's and C4's but they were still a lot better looking in my opinion than the Karmen Ghia knock off 911. And as far as i was concerned no one ever built a car like the 1967 427 Corvette. I was a Junior in highschool when one of my friends a year ahead of me, a senior, got a new 427 Corvette from his parents. As far as I was concerned there was nothing anything cooler than cruising in that car. I think I learned why ENVY is one of the seven deadly sins over that car. In my mind if God made a car it would have been the 1967 427 Corvette in white with a red interior. (My friend's was marroon with black) To this day I want one even though I have a C5 and C6 and i love them both. But the 67 427 vette was then Barbi Benton (Playboy covergirl in 1970)of cars - yeah I had a poster of the Vette and Barbi on my dorm room wall (as I am sure so many others around my age did - don't deny it your wife won't get angry after all these years). I lusted for both of them and I think looking at Barbi's nude pictures on my dorm room wall and in Playboy was the only thing that could momentarily steal my attention and my lust for that now three year old 67 Vette.(Can you say "nude pictures" on a forum? IDK) I haven't thought about Barbi Benton and her pictures in Playboy in probably forty years but hardly a week has gone by in almost a half century that I haven't thought about that 67 Vette. You see that is what the writers could never seem to understand, they couldn't quantify it, they couldn't put a number to it so they just ignored the fact that the Corvette offered and has continued to offer with almost every style change a "fun factor" second to none. That almost perfect blend of performance, styling, exclusivity and since the mid 90's quality. One of the mags C&D or R&T (can't remember which one but it wasn't Motor Trend) tried to account for the "fun to drive" factor and added a subjective number to their tests but the bottom line was that very few - if any- of the writers had the balls (can you say "balls" on a forum? IDK) to actually rate the Corvette fun factor above the vaulted and saintly 911. If by chance one of the writers "less influenced by European bias" did give the fun factor nod to the Vette it couldn't overcome the huge "fuel economy" shackles that the Vette was burdened with even though the maintenance costs of the 911 were so costly if something broke. It seemed that whenever the Corvette would win a category the writers were sure to fall back on the economy opportunity. So to this day even though the Corvette has shown major improvements in almost every category with each styling change and has shown the world that the Corvette could not only compete in the world sports car comparison - they consistently win it - hands down, finally most of the automobile writers have "seen the light" and have given the Corvette it's deserved accolades. But there remains several "elitist" auto writer that carry on the "anti Corvette bias". It is my belieff that the anti Corvette bias with writers actually started to change with the Corvette winning the 24 hours of Daytona and LeMans. Ironically I think the domination of those races by the Corvette also reinforced the bias with some of the automotive press (jealousy).
Yes I know there are opportunities to impove the Corvette as thee are with all cars. There are known deficiencies - believe me the GM engineers are well aware of them (I know several and there are no more self-critical engineers in the industry) - and they are not ignoring them. Just wait until the new C7 debuts when the world will see that several issues that have been noted over the years have been addressed. And just know that as soon as the automotive press gets their dirty little hands on them there will be a C7 vs 911(or whatever number it is today) comparison in every magazine. They will sing the praises of the new C7 Corvette but rest assurred that the 911 will just barely and unjustifiably edge out the C7. That is almost a forgone conclusion. But you can be sure that the Corvette will be the better car in almost every category, offer the most "bang for the buck" and the car that gets the most attention of automobile enthusiasts everywhere. And I know there will be a lot more guys lusting for the new C7 than the 911. So it really doesn't matter to me what the biased automotive writers attempt to convince enthusiasts of in regards to the Corvette. Because those of us that own them know the "real" story about a very "real" car - even if, to many, it is their dream car!

Dadman1950
10-08-12, 11:25 PM
I'm sure you are wrong. It must be perfect - it's German, AND a Porsche.:beer



I grew up reading Car&Driver, Road&Track, and Motor Trend. Couldn't wait until the new issues came out each month. There was sure to be a great article on American Muscle and they were always quick to point out that American muscle was the standard of the world. Then in the seventies it became cool to taut the "superior" European automobiles. It gave the reporters a sense of "worldliness" in at least their own mind. And yes we know about the quality issues that occurred in the seventies and eighties but that "elitist" viewpoint of several automotive writers hung on and when most of the quality issues were resolved they still couldn't let it go. Let's face it in the 70's and 80's, without the almost monthly C3 and C4 Corvette vs 911 comparison those magazines would have gone out business. Who the hell (can you say hell on a forum? IDK) wanted to read about Volvos. Even Volvo owners would fall alseep reading about them. And I cannot remember one comparison during those years when a Corvette won a magazine comparison with a Porsche (except possibly with the intorduction of the ZR1). But you know what? I didn't care. I know there were somed issues with the C3's and C4's but they were still a lot better looking in my opinion than the Karmen Ghia knock off 911. And as far as i was concerned no one ever built a car like the 1967 427 Corvette. I was a Junior in highschool when one of my friends a year ahead of me, a senior, got a new 427 Corvette from his parents. As far as I was concerned there was nothing anything cooler than cruising in that car. I think I learned why ENVY is one of the seven deadly sins over that car. In my mind if God made a car it would have been the 1967 427 Corvette in white with a red interior. (My friend's was marroon with black) To this day I want one even though I have a C5 and C6 and i love them both. But the 67 427 vette was then Barbi Benton (Playboy covergirl in 1970)of cars - yeah I had a poster of the Vette and Barbi on my dorm room wall (as I am sure so many others around my age did - don't deny it your wife won't get angry after all these years). I lusted for both of them and I think looking at Barbi's nude pictures on my dorm room wall and in Playboy was the only thing that could momentarily steal my attention and my lust for that now three year old 67 Vette.(Can you say "nude pictures" on a forum? IDK) I haven't thought about Barbi Benton and her pictures in Playboy in probably forty years but hardly a week has gone by in almost a half century that I haven't thought about that 67 Vette. You see that is what the writers could never seem to understand, they couldn't quantify it, they couldn't put a number to it so they just ignored the fact that the Corvette offered and has continued to offer with almost every style change a "fun factor" second to none. That almost perfect blend of performance, styling, exclusivity and since the mid 90's quality. One of the mags C&D or R&T (can't remember which one but it wasn't Motor Trend) tried to account for the "fun to drive" factor and added a subjective number to their tests but the bottom line was that very few - if any- of the writers had the balls (can you say "balls" on a forum? IDK) to actually rate the Corvette fun factor above the vaulted and saintly 911. If by chance one of the writers "less influenced by European bias" did give the fun factor nod to the Vette it couldn't overcome the huge "fuel economy" shackles that the Vette was burdened with even though the maintenance costs of the 911 were so costly if something broke. It seemed that whenever the Corvette would win a category the writers were sure to fall back on the economy opportunity. So to this day even though the Corvette has shown major improvements in almost every category with each styling change and has shown the world that the Corvette could not only compete in the world sports car comparison - they consistently win it - hands down, finally most of the automobile writers have "seen the light" and have given the Corvette it's deserved accolades. But there remains several "elitist" auto writer that carry on the "anti Corvette bias". It is my belieff that the anti Corvette bias with writers actually started to change with the Corvette winning the 24 hours of Daytona and LeMans. Ironically I think the domination of those races by the Corvette also reinforced the bias with some of the automotive press (jealousy).
Yes I know there are opportunities to impove the Corvette as thee are with all cars. There are known deficiencies - believe me the GM engineers are well aware of them (I know several and there are no more self-critical engineers in the industry) - and they are not ignoring them. Just wait until the new C7 debuts when the world will see that several issues that have been noted over the years have been addressed. And just know that as soon as the automotive press gets their dirty little hands on them there will be a C7 vs 911(or whatever number it is today) comparison in every magazine. They will sing the praises of the new C7 Corvette but rest assurred that the 911 will just barely and unjustifiably edge out the C7. That is almost a forgone conclusion. But you can be sure that the Corvette will be the better car in almost every category, offer the most "bang for the buck" and the car that gets the most attention of automobile enthusiasts everywhere. And I know there will be a lot more guys lusting for the new C7 than the 911. So it really doesn't matter to me what the biased automotive writers attempt to convince enthusiasts of in regards to the Corvette. Because those of us that own them know the "real" story about a very "real" car - even if, to many, it is their dream car!