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View Full Version : Crossfire is a good system regardless



Boshboo
10-22-09, 04:00 PM
To all crossfire lovers, there is hope.
HP does not come from, TPI,LT1,LS1 or any hokus pokus intake system, fancy pumps or any other fancy engine part or parts.
You get HP from the law of physics: HP=(torqe*rpm)/7024 if the torque is in Newton meter. You get your power from the formula: HP=13000/(static compression*volume*Rpm). So what to do ???? Yea well these TPI,LT1 whiners are right, we only have 200 HP, so what ???
Bump up the compression rate guys and let your Crossfire rew more and you will give these TPI whiners wipe as and a long nose.
It sounds easy and it is ?? :cool:cool:cool:cool:cool:cool

Boshboo

nelson84
10-22-09, 09:39 PM
To all crossfire lovers, there is hope.
HP does not come from, TPI,LT1,LS1 or any hokus pokus intake system, fancy pumps or any other fancy engine part or parts.
You get HP from the law of physics: HP=(torqe*rpm)/7024 if the torque is in Newton meter. You get your power from the formula: HP=13000/(static compression*volume*Rpm). So what to do ???? Yea well these TPI,LT1 whiners are right, we only have 200 HP, so what ???
Bump up the compression rate guys and let your Crossfire rew more and you will give these TPI whiners wipe as and a long nose.
It sounds easy and it is ?? :cool:cool:cool:cool:cool:cool

Boshboo

What did you do to yours? Give us some details?

Boshboo
10-24-09, 09:22 AM
What did you do to yours? Give us some details?

JE Pistones 11:1 compression,Cam Duration 270/270 lift 0.5 MSD 6AL, Jet chip ( only for better lockup control ) Jet temperature sensor. TCI shift kit, manual fuel pressure valve from an old VW and fuel pump from a 95 Corvette, Magnaflow cat and unknown silencers.
Port matched intake (ATTENTION NOT PORTMATCHED TO THE HEADS) THAT IS A BIG WORLD WIDE SPREAD TO DO MISSTAKE. Leav 1-2 millimer offset around the intake to MISSMATCH the head to the intake, bigger hole in the head narower in the intake. Port matched stock heedders (ATTENTION NOT PORTMATCHED TO THE HEADS) THAT IS A BIG WORLD WIDE SPREAD TO DO MISSTAKE. Leav minimum 1-2 millimer offset around the exhaust hole in the head to MISSMATCH the heedder (bigger hole in the heedder narower in the head ). Make the offset relation 1:2 on the inner turn in the heeddder compaired to the outer turn.
For an exemple 1/8 inch on the inner turn the (flore) and 1/4 in the outer turn ( the roof ).

Now we talking engine punch +HP300 with perfect idel, midrange and full throthel. !!!!!!!!! :cool:cool:cool

Boshboo

Hib Halverson
10-24-09, 10:13 AM
To all crossfire lovers, there is hope.
HP does not come from, TPI,LT1,LS1 or any hokus pokus intake system, fancy pumps or any other fancy engine part or parts.
(snip)
"Hokus pokus intake system"?!
Uh, right...

You get HP from the law of physics: HP=(torqe*rpm)/7024
(snip)

Actually, the formula is: brake horsepower = torque X rpm/5252

Boshboo
10-24-09, 05:23 PM
You are right, if torque is in L.B. :cool I stated Newton
and it has nothing to do with metods, braked or accelerated mass.

nelson84
10-26-09, 12:31 AM
JE Pistones 11:1 compression,Cam Duration 270/270 lift 0.5 MSD 6AL, Jet chip ( only for better lockup control ) Jet temperature sensor. TCI shift kit, manual fuel pressure valve from an old VW and fuel pump from a 95 Corvette, Magnaflow cat and unknown silencers.
Port matched intake (ATTENTION NOT PORTMATCHED TO THE HEADS) THAT IS A BIG WORLD WIDE SPREAD TO DO MISSTAKE. Leav 1-2 millimer offset around the intake to MISSMATCH the head to the intake, bigger hole in the head narower in the intake. Port matched stock heedders (ATTENTION NOT PORTMATCHED TO THE HEADS) THAT IS A BIG WORLD WIDE SPREAD TO DO MISSTAKE. Leav minimum 1-2 millimer offset around the exhaust hole in the head to MISSMATCH the heedder (bigger hole in the heedder narower in the head ). Make the offset relation 1:2 on the inner turn in the heeddder compaired to the outer turn.
For an exemple 1/8 inch on the inner turn the (flore) and 1/4 in the outer turn ( the roof ).

Now we talking engine punch +HP300 with perfect idel, midrange and full throthel. !!!!!!!!! :cool:cool:cool

Boshboo

So you think the new renegade intake won't be as good as porting the stock intake manifold? So you left a 1-2 mm around the intake ports on just the sides and top of port? Do you have and track times with this setup?

Boshboo
10-26-09, 04:03 AM
So you think the new renegade intake won't be as good as porting the stock intake manifold? So you left a 1-2 mm around the intake ports on just the sides and top of port? Do you have and track times with this setup?

Yes 1-2mm or 1/16"-1/12" around the whole intake port, the offset is on the exhaust side, bigger is better. What it does is that it creates a (one way restriction) for the return pressure wawe. So if your intake restrict you, you have to grind it for more area and at the same time you have to grind the head to to compensate for that so you get your "mismatch". It is always a restriction some where in a intake system and in the crossfire intake it's in the passages between intake and head, if you do the 1-2 mm mismatch you are done with the intake and you have moved the restriction to the valve, camshaft and compression ratio .

An aftermarket intake is probably the right way to go if you are after serious power increase or you are just to lacy and do not want to grind the intake that you have, but alone an intake is nothing, it is like putting on a 2000 CFM throttle body on a stock motor .

My point of view is that the crossfire system works good with some modification and is as good as any other injection-system, if you want to bee around 300 HP.I do not have any track times but my friend has a stock 2006 Z06 and i keep up with him up to 150 ( he do not like it) and after that HP shows whose is in charge.

:cool:cool:cool

Hib Halverson
10-26-09, 09:38 AM
You are right, if torque is in L.B. :cool I stated Newton
and it has nothing to do with metods, braked or accelerated mass.

Ooops. My bad. I didn't catch the metric part because I'm not used to working with that forumula that way. Now, I assume you meant "newton/meters, as opposed to "pounds/feet", correct?

(snip)
I do not have any track times but my friend has a stock 2006 Z06 and i keep up with him up to 150 ( he do not like it) and after that HP shows whose is in charge.
Ok...now I'm even more attentive.

You have an 84 Corvette with a slightly-modified, stock engine which can "keep up with" a stock '06, Z06? If I seem a bit skeptical, I apologize but, figuring your engine is making 250-hp or so and the Z06's engine making twice that, it's a little hard for me to visualize you keeping up with the Z06 until 150 mph.

Can you tell me a little bit about what you mean by "keep up"?

Is this in an acceleration test where you guys go from a standing start? Is it from a rolling start on the highway?

Are there any other modifications to your 84, other than the ported intake?

gmjunkie
10-26-09, 09:51 AM
Ooops. My bad. I didn't catch the metric part because I'm not used to working with that forumula that way. Now, I assume you meant "newton/meters, as opposed to "pounds/feet", correct?
Ok...now I'm even more attentive.

You have an 84 Corvette with a slightly-modified, stock engine which can "keep up with" a stock '06, Z06? If I seem a bit skeptical, I apologize but, figuring your engine is making 250-hp or so and the Z06's engine making twice that, it's a little hard for me to visualize you keeping up with the Z06 until 150 mph.

Can you tell me a little bit about what you mean by "keep up"?

Is this in an acceleration test where you guys go from a standing start? Is it from a rolling start on the highway?
I think he forgot to mention Hib,The Z06 was still spinning in the "Bull Sh*t" at 150 MPH!!:boogie:boogie:boogie

Boshboo
10-26-09, 01:27 PM
Hehehehhe after 150 no more, the Z06 just dissaper ;LOL;LOL;LOL
Keep up = He outruns me but he can not whipe as me.
My butt uggly C4 = 310 HP @4300

Buccaneer
10-26-09, 07:29 PM
Yes 1-2mm or 1/16"-1/12" around the whole intake port, the offset is on the exhaust side, bigger is better. What it does is that it creates a (one way restriction) for the return pressure wawe. So if your intake restrict you, you have to grind it for more area and at the same time you have to grind the head to to compensate for that so you get your "mismatch". It is always a restriction some where in a intake system and in the crossfire intake it's in the passages between intake and head, if you do the 1-2 mm mismatch you are done with the intake and you have moved the restriction to the valve, camshaft and compression ratio .

An aftermarket intake is probably the right way to go if you are after serious power increase or you are just to lacy and do not want to grind the intake that you have, but alone an intake is nothing, it is like putting on a 2000 CFM throttle body on a stock motor .

My point of view is that the crossfire system works good with some modification and is as good as any other injection-system, if you want to bee around 300 HP.I do not have any track times but my friend has a stock 2006 Z06 and i keep up with him up to 150 ( he do not like it) and after that HP shows whose is in charge.

:cool:cool:cool

I don't believe it for a minute that your 84 even modded keeps up with that ZO, let alone to 150. :boogie At 150, that ZO is pulling pretty hard and making lots of power.

As for the Renegade performance, we know what we have and have done lots of testing and it does out perform an XRam hands down and a "ported stock" manifold I assure you. You can be a non-believer all you want, we really don't care.;shrug

Hib Halverson
10-26-09, 07:55 PM
Hehehehhe after 150 no more, the Z06 just dissaper

Keep up = He outruns me but he can not whipe as me.
My butt uggly C4 = 310 HP @4300

Impressive...actually 310-hp@4300 from a 2xTBI engine is phenomenal. That's more than a 50% increase in performance! What size is the engine?

Also, I'm really interested in your list of mods. What the heck...I'd be doubly impressed if you posted the dyno data recorded when it made 310.

nelson84
10-27-09, 12:28 AM
What about siamiseing the runners, is that not cool? They siamise the TPI for more top end why not the crossfire? Some take out half way down the runner would this help or make the performance worse?

Actually how much porting did you do at the other end of the runner? I have an extra intake manifold I was going to mess with until I get my Renegade:thumb

Boshboo
10-27-09, 02:35 AM
What about siamiseing the runners, is that not cool? They siamise the TPI for more top end why not the crossfire? Some take out half way down the runner would this help or make the performance worse?

Actually how much porting did you do at the other end of the runner? I have an extra intake manifold I was going to mess with until I get my Renegade:thumb

In my opinion to siamese the intake probably helps a little but it is to over do things. What i mean is why put effort in things that you need a dyno to detect ??? just grind the openings, these small HP:s comes later after the main problem is taken care of. First of all to fix is the low compression ratio and the dull camshaft, this will get you around 75-100 HP . The head job done to my car is new valve steams, a decent seat and valve job, and some basic valve bowl cleanup. Just the valve job it self is worth every penny regardless of miles if the guy who do it knows what he is doing, this is what's makes your car stand out and run smooth and easy from low to full throttle.

Boshboo
10-27-09, 03:01 AM
Impressive...actually 310-hp@4300 from a 2xTBI engine is phenomenal. That's more than a 50% increase in performance! What size is the engine?

Also, I'm really interested in your list of mods. What the heck...I'd be doubly impressed if you posted the dyno data recorded when it made 310.

It was a 383 with 290 cam, and it was runing poor,eaverything from lean,knocking like H..... and so on. I solde the 383 block and went back to 350 and a 370 cam moore or less gave up the project, i let it be fore a while. I started up again 5-6 yeras ago and slowly things got solved. The car still don't run perfect but it preform more than enough fore me and i don't think this is the max from the crossfire system. Next step will be to go to a 350-360 degree cam and see if the computer likes that better.

nelson84
10-27-09, 08:23 AM
In my opinion to siamese the intake probably helps a little but it is to over do things. What i mean is why put effort in things that you need a dyno to detect ??? just grind the openings, these small HP:s comes later after the main problem is taken care of. First of all to fix is the low compression ratio and the dull camshaft, this will get you around 75-100 HP . The head job done to my car is new valve steams, a decent seat and valve job, and some basic valve bowl cleanup. Just the valve job it self is worth every penny regardless of miles if the guy who do it knows what he is doing, this is what's makes your car stand out and run smooth and easy from low to full throttle.

How much did it cost to do the heads? What cam are you running?

Boshboo
10-27-09, 03:53 PM
How much did it cost to do the heads? What cam are you running?

I have this one from lunati LUN-50142 ( Summitracing ), My friend works at a workshop for race engines and he did the heads for free but normaly they charges 7-800 dollar for 2 heads including parts.

ex-x-fire
10-27-09, 08:31 PM
If he's really runnin' 11.0 to 1 comp. ratio, and not having major spark knock, on stock type heads, he aint running pump gas w/out octane booster.

Boshboo
10-28-09, 04:16 PM
If he's really runnin' 11.0 to 1 comp. ratio, and not having major spark knock, on stock type heads, he aint running pump gas w/out octane booster.

I use Unleaded 98 Octane Swedish pump gas. Hehehehe cost only about $ 7.5 per gallon. :L:L:L I get some knockings at low speed mph 15-20 when i hit full throthel .

Hib Halverson
10-28-09, 06:50 PM
Your Location information says "Simi Valley," a city in Southern California, but you're using "98 Octane Swedish pump gas."

Uh...ok...the joke is on use, right?

warren s
10-28-09, 07:04 PM
How about posting some pictures of this wonder engine & car ?
Dyno chart?

Very impressed by a car that has 310 ponies but keeps up with one that has 505, and doesnt weight less........

Boshboo
10-29-09, 12:10 AM
Your Location information says "Simi Valley," a city in Southern California, but you're using "98 Octane Swedish pump gas."

Uh...ok...the joke is on use, right?


Noop. :D:D:D 3 mounth of the year in Simi the outher in Sunne Sweden.

Hib Halverson
10-29-09, 08:58 AM
So, the 84 you have is in Sweden, not here in California?

Boshboo
10-29-09, 03:05 PM
So, the 84 you have is in Sweden, not here in California?

Yes, the car is in Sweden how ever sine there appear to be a lot of feelings involved in the subject !!!! Maybe there is one in Simi Valley to soon
:D

daleman
04-22-10, 06:55 PM
To all crossfire lovers, there is hope.
HP does not come from, TPI,LT1,LS1 or any hokus pokus intake system, fancy pumps or any other fancy engine part or parts.
You get HP from the law of physics: HP=(torqe*rpm)/7024 if the torque is in Newton meter. You get your power from the formula: HP=13000/(static compression*volume*Rpm). So what to do ???? Yea well these TPI,LT1 whiners are right, we only have 200 HP, so what ???
Bump up the compression rate guys and let your Crossfire rew more and you will give these TPI whiners wipe as and a long nose.
It sounds easy and it is ?? :cool:cool:cool:cool:cool:cool

Boshboo

There's an easy way to bump up the compression? How do I do that Homey? (I live in Simi Too)

bartric
11-11-10, 10:34 PM
Boshboo, regardless of what others are saying, and regardless of how factual your posts may/may not be, I support you in saying the crossfire stand just as much of a chance as any, poor performance does not come from one part, but many, and the Crossfire 'Vettes didn't have the most built engines in the world in the first place.

Boshboo
11-12-10, 02:34 AM
There's an easy way to bump up the compression? How do I do that Homey? (I live in Simi Too)

I changed to dome pistons in my motor but you can mill the heads a little to, but to much will make the intake missmatch . Problems start when the cuin increases, stay on stock Cu and grind the intake as much as you can.

Better late than never :W