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View Full Version : Bummer ! I need to vent !!



blazer427X3
05-29-09, 10:20 AM
After four months of reading everything I could lay my hands on to learn about C5 Z's, looking, comparing and shopping I thought I found THE car ... an 02 Z06 in my favorite color with a few suspension mods and stock motor advertised on another Vette website. After a numerous conversations with the owner and looking at photos of the car from every angle, we agreed to a tentative price. The car is 2,500 miles away and I was going to buy my plane ticket today. Out of boredom I decide to look at other posts the guy had put up on the forum to see what issues he might have had with the car based on questions, comments or concerns in previous posts. To my complete dismay, I found posts over a year old in which he talked about mileage that is 20 thousand miles MORE than the mileage he claims is on the car now. I found a very early post where he talked about the mileage on the car when he bought it 3 years ago, and 3 more posts in which he mentions mileage that is in excess of the claimed mileage now. I emailed to ask about it and he sorta dodged the question. I emailed again with a very direct question about the exact mileage with on this car and why there were posts mentioning higher miles. So far no answer ... My guess is that the cluster was replaced intentionally to misrepresent the true miles on the car and perhaps he forgot about his earlier forum posts. So, I'm sitting here at work and not getting much done this morning. To say the least, I'm disappointed. I was supposed to fly out, pay for and drive the car home exactly two weeks from today. :ugh

njlouc
05-29-09, 11:36 AM
Blazer... seems as if you are in a better situation than you think. You are letting emotions take over but you still have 20% good sense. Logically it will cost you about $2k++ just to get it home. These are wonderful cars if they are kept well. If you get one that has been in a flood,collision, high miles or otherwise messed up you will have problems forever. Unexpected repairs could cost thousands. Also my dad always said that if it was such a great deal his relatives would have bought it long ago. The one you described is very suspect as having some problems/fraud. Luckily you caught it.
When looking for mine, I came across some real scams. It seems that a Vette is particularly ripe for scams. be careful, but it seems that you already know that. For a few $$ try a carfax. It is not perfect and on a 2002 it may not be up to date, but it will yield some information. The good news: I think that there are some really nice low mileage/ well kept cars that will meet your requirements in the Ohio area. keep looking. Seems venting is often helpful.:thumb

Baldilocks
05-29-09, 11:48 AM
Wow!! That sucks, but like njlouc says, better that you find out now. I am taking my time to find the right car, I know that. The more stories I hear like this one makes me think more and more about taking even LONGER before I decide.

killain
05-29-09, 12:33 PM
Blazer... seems as if you are in a better situation than you think. You are letting emotions take over but you still have 20% good sense. Logically it will cost you about $2k++ just to get it home. These are wonderful cars if they are kept well. If you get one that has been in a flood,collision, high miles or otherwise messed up you will have problems forever. Unexpected repairs could cost thousands. Also my dad always said that if it was such a great deal his relatives would have bought it long ago. The one you described is very suspect as having some problems/fraud. Luckily you caught it.
When looking for mine, I came across some real scams. It seems that a Vette is particularly ripe for scams. be careful, but it seems that you already know that. For a few $$ try a carfax. It is not perfect and on a 2002 it may not be up to date, but it will yield some information. The good news: I think that there are some really nice low mileage/ well kept cars that will meet your requirements in the Ohio area. keep looking. Seems venting is often helpful.:thumb

NJLOUC, this is exactly what I could offer but you said it best. Below you will find a few tools that you can use along with a Carfax reout.

www.nicb.org (http://www.nicb.org)

www.nmvtis.gov (http://www.nmvtis.gov)

Be careful when buying a corvette, lots of people don't think that abusing a car with burnouts and wild rides is harmful, But me, I don't subscribe to that line of thought, but that's just me ! Good luck ! ;shrug

If I'm braking any CAC rules I'm sorry and if the mods let me know I will remove them?

warren s
05-29-09, 12:45 PM
Dont worry about it, there are 1000s of good cars out there and its a buyers market.

I had a few "perfect deals" fall through before I even eventually flew out to Ohio from New York to get my current C5.

jrose7004
05-29-09, 12:59 PM
A good rule of thumb about buying cars is never go see a car farther than 2 hours driving time from your house. If you go any father than that you'll be disappointed!

blazer427X3
05-29-09, 01:04 PM
Hey Guys !

First off thanks for taking the time to read my rant.

I was doing my best to be careful and not let emotion get control of me on this purchase. I've owned 4 other Corvettes and I've been down this road before so to speak. I really tried to do my research, I checked Carfax, it was clean. The price was decent, but not outrageously low. In my 4 months of research I have discovered that Corvettes are a bit cheaper in the western states. Perhaps because the milder weather allows them to be used as DD cars and hence there are more sold new and ultimately more offered as used cars. The cost to get the car here was nowhere near $2,000. The plane flight for a one way ticket was under $200. I figured that gas would cost somewhere around $300-350 and with relatives across the country and probably just one night in a hotel the cost in that catagory was negligable. I was still going to save about $500-$700 by the time I rolled into my own driveway. Had I not been curious about what the seller talked about in the forum with regard to his car I would have never been suspicious. Its a simple thing to replace the cluster in the C5's. It was when I saw comments and posts that were dated over 2 years ago mentioning higher miles (one dated 1yr. 6mos. ago stated a mileage that was 20,000 miles higher than the current claimed mileage) that made the little red flags in my head start waving.

So, what have I learned ? Try to buy locally even if the price is higher, pay close attention to what the seller says and verify whenever possible, take every claim with a grain of salt unless there is a paper trail to back it up.

killain
05-29-09, 01:35 PM
Hey Guys !

First off thanks for taking the time to read my rant.

I was doing my best to be careful and not let emotion get control of me on this purchase. I've owned 4 other Corvettes and I've been down this road before so to speak. I really tried to do my research, I checked Carfax, it was clean. The price was decent, but not outrageously low. In my 4 months of research I have discovered that Corvettes are a bit cheaper in the western states. Perhaps because the milder weather allows them to be used as DD cars and hence there are more sold new and ultimately more offered as used cars. The cost to get the car here was nowhere near $2,000. The plane flight for a one way ticket was under $200. I figured that gas would cost somewhere around $300-350 and with relatives across the country and probably just one night in a hotel the cost in that catagory was negligable. I was still going to save about $500-$700 by the time I rolled into my own driveway. Had I not been curious about what the seller talked about in the forum with regard to his car I would have never been suspicious. Its a simple thing to replace the cluster in the C5's. It was when I saw comments and posts that were dated over 2 years ago mentioning higher miles (one dated 1yr. 6mos. ago stated a mileage that was 20,000 miles higher than the current claimed mileage) that made the little red flags in my head start waving.

So, what have I learned ? Try to buy locally even if the price is higher, pay close attention to what the seller says and verify whenever possible, take every claim with a grain of salt unless there is a paper trail to back it up.


Now your thinking right ! :w

c5y2k
05-29-09, 01:59 PM
You might try and see if we have any forum members that live in that area that would be willing to "check" the car out for you.

spiral gray
05-29-09, 02:53 PM
Took me a couple of years chasing bad C4s & C5s before I settled on my 04. It's worth the time and wait for the perfect car.

Spiral Gray

vett boy
05-29-09, 03:43 PM
You might try and see if we have any forum members that live in that area that would be willing to "check" the car out for you.Very ,Very good idea. I bough my 08 new on ebay and I contacted a member of a local Corvette club plus a member (sorry )of another forum to look at it prior to even sending any money.Then GM JUNKIE did the pickup and final inspection.:thumb

ARKvette02
05-29-09, 04:07 PM
Hey Vette boy,

Do you want me to go and pay this guy a visit??? I'll take Baldi with me. We'll take care of it!!
:r:flaming:bash:mad

Baldilocks
05-29-09, 04:20 PM
Hey Vette boy,

Do you want me to go and pay this guy a visit??? I'll take Baldi with me. We'll take care of it!!
:r:flaming:bash:mad


Sounds like a plan to me. http://www.euphoricarythmia.com/images/smilies/auto003.gif

vett boy
05-29-09, 04:41 PM
Actually I feel i've done well buying things that aren't local .But we all need to take care .GM Junkie has been a great asset to me for years .He's got my 08 up for sale now :D I love the new 2010 Grand National

ARKvette02
05-29-09, 05:15 PM
Actually I feel i've done well buying things that aren't local .But we all need to take care .GM Junkie has been a great asset to me for years .He's got my 08 up for sale now :D I love the new 2010 Grand National
Good deal

KANE
05-29-09, 08:49 PM
So, what have I learned ? Try to buy locally even if the price is higher, pay close attention to what the seller says and verify whenever possible, take every claim with a grain of salt unless there is a paper trail to back it up.


:thumb


That is great advice for anyone looking for a car! I was very fortunate. I only spent two to three months looking for my Trans Am while my Vette was listed for sale.

I found a one owner car that was garaged and had a receipt for every repair... and was tracked in Excel to compute total owner cost for 14 years. I have the original build sheet, both GM assembly manuals, the window sticker, and gobs of other paperwork. The car is simply perfect.

A great car will be immaculate and have a great paper trail from a limited number of owners- preferably only one owner.

65-to-00
05-30-09, 07:22 PM
"Car Fax" is not a "be-all-end-all" when it comes to problems with a vehicle. They did indeed save my butt once with a car that was on a car lot owned by "Tony Sporano" .... hey .... I freaking live in Joisey.

Car Fax did "out" this dealer .... the car showed up in two different MB dealers with different colors and a few different milages that went up and down.

There are ways to "launder" a title from state to state to avoid a total wreck showing up with a code on the title ..... and I strongly I suspect that my Toyota truck was "laundered" while it "lived" down in Florida for a year ..... bought from a local dealer .... but there are still flaws in the title and it ..... Car-Faxed clean ...

And ....... there ain't nooooooooooo way this guy "forgot" about mileage issues or changing out a cluster ..... there ain't nooooooooooo way!

I think I'd run like hell .... a good deal will come along .... :beer

PS ... my former next-door neighbor filled me in on some ways to launder titles. He had a 55 Corvette and a 56 T-Bird ..... "worked" for (or with) a local body shop on laundering total wrecks .... they specialized in "clips" .... one day he started yacking .. on how he used his brother in up state New York. They would take a bunch of titles up and "register" the cars there and then "bring them back to Jersey" after they "cooled down. I doubt if this stuff would show up on Car-Fax???

ARKvette02
05-30-09, 08:24 PM
Ya got to love Jersey!!! "forget about it!":cool

olbear1962
05-30-09, 09:15 PM
blazer427X3 (http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/members/blazer427x3.html)
Good luck on your search, it is sad there are so many folks out there for the fast buck and take anyone for a ride. Sorry to hear it was a forum member now that does suck......
You will find your vette am sure, they are in plentiful supply...

gofastlarry
05-30-09, 09:17 PM
:rsomeone is gunna get wacked!!!!!!

hotshotzny
05-30-09, 09:41 PM
i thought i was going to have to orphan a couple kids yesterday myself, bought a 01 dodge pickup from a friend of mine, he was the 2nd owner of the vehicle but picked it up less than a year old from another friend in the middle of a nasty divorce, the truck has been maintained and documented everything ever done including a bunch of warranty work that didnt need tobe done but his brother worked at a dealer that was being shut down by the irs so he flubbed some records :D so im told.. anyhow i picked it up thursday and took it home .. truck is in great shape except he isnt much of an auto detailer so it really needed a wash and wax.... spent my whole day washing clay barring and waxing it and went to pick up my son at school, half way there the engine stumbles for about 1/4 of a mile and clears up, as im driving home it does it again and the engine light comes on..... first thing i did was call him up and tell him about it ( he thought i was busting his hump but i wasnt) anyhow long story short i rinsed off the motor as well, when i called his brother and asked him what was up he asked me right off if i had cleaned the engine compartment... he said if i got it wet that was what happend... i took it home, hooked up my code reader and it showed a misfire on one of the cylinders, reset it and hasnt come back on, this guy loves dodge but says that dealers can make a living just off of reseting engine lights on thier cars.. glad i have my own code reader already:D.. so my friend gets to live to see another day!!

an another note.. im glad you didnt wind up getting screwed on the deal, would have sucked had you gone all that way to get the car, pullout and halfway home find out you have a crankcase full of sawdust to keep it from leaking! good luck in your search..your car is out there waiting for you

blazer427X3
05-30-09, 09:46 PM
Hey All,

Thanks for all the responses and I want to make it clear, it was NOT a member of THIS forum. The car was advertised in the C5 For Sale section of another website.

The car was advertised as having 73,000 miles on it. When I looked back at previous posts made by the seller on the Z06 section of the site the chronology went something like this :

5/2006 "just got my 02 ... 68,000 miles but it looks like new"
7/2006 "71K miles .... and its still perfect, no issues whatsoever"
8/2006 "I have a ... 02 Z06, just turned 71,000 miles, solid as a rock"
10/2006 "76,000 miles on my 02 ..."
2/2007 "I have an 02, 86,000 miles on it ... a lot of people told me it still looks new"
5/2007 "I have an 02, just turned 92,000 miles ... I maintain it well"
11/2007 " 96,000 on my 2002 ... ZO6 "

The reply when I sent copies of his posts back to him was ...

"I completely understand your issue here ... I will take a picture of the Odometer reading for you if it will help.

Obviously, I would not mis-state the mileage of the Car to you, because as soon as you turn on the ignition, you will see what the mileage is."


After reflecting on this a little further it raises the question ... How can someone tell if a car has had the cluster replaced in an attempt to misrepresent mileage ?? Does the DIC on the C5 store any information about this ? :confused
B

hotshotzny
05-30-09, 11:08 PM
so just by that he put 30,000 miles or so on it in a years and a half??? plus he is being dishonest...... id pass this one up

warren s
05-31-09, 07:13 AM
After reflecting on this a little further it raises the question ... How can someone tell if a car has had the cluster replaced in an attempt to misrepresent mileage ?? Does the DIC on the C5 store any information about this ? :confused
B

I would say its stored in the cars ECM not in the cluster. Reason being is that I replaced a IP cluster on a 1999 C5 as part of an upgrade to add a HUD dispaly to that car. We dont know the actual mileage of the "Low miles wreck" it came out of, but it did read the actual mileage on my friends 99, same as the old cluster.