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  1. #1
    Member grumpyvette's Avatar
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    Default ANODES AND MAGNETS

    I got asked if anodes are a good idea?
    IF you pull your intake and find its starting to corroad badly in the coolant ports, or your aluminum heads are ,well,
    thats far more comon on BOATS, especially those used in salt water or where the battery grounds attached to an intake bolt, but in cars its usually a sign of a BAD ENGINE GROUND and LACK of a RADIATOR ANODE, and running water vs ANTIFREEZE COOLANT in the radiator. BTW, A BAD GROUND can also cause the pilot bearing on a manual trans to show damage IF both the trans and engine are not grounded to the frame and the battery to the same frame
    heres an old post
    I got asked if anodes are a good idea?
    well, when you run an aluminum performance cylinder head on an iron engine block with pure copper head gaskets, and aluminum radiator ,like Ive been doing for many years, those anodes are mandatory, and yes they do worksup: and prevent or at least slow electrolysis a great deal
    naturally youll need to use the anodes in the block vs the radiator with a plastic radiator like some cars have


    http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html
    http://www.bmcno.org/RadCap.htm

    http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/S...searchbtn.y=12

    IDEALLY theres ZERO MEASURABLE voltage! and with both a decent frame to engine ground and battery to frame ground theres seldom much voltage in the coolant, but having a transmission to frame ground in addition is a good idea as Ive seen that help also, a loose ground causes lots of flaky/intermitent problems
    Determining the levels of EME present in the cooling system is very easy. All you really need is an ultrasensitive voltmeter. Simply remove the radiator cap, stick the positive probe into the cooling system, and ground the negative probe to the radiator. With the metal dialed down to the lowest voltage setting, take a reading of the total amount of electrical volts present in the cooling system. The reading should be somewhere BELOW 0.01 volts, if its not you NEED to find out where the grounds loose or an extra grounds needed and add an anode
    running low anti-freeze concentrations like nearly all water,hurts the engine also, especially if its not distillede like from a hose where its got a higher mineral content so it conducts current better

    MAGNETS
    btw, add a few magnets to the oil pan and drain back area in your engine, the trap and hold metalic dust that comes from wear and increase engine life span by preventing that crap embedding in the bearings
    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetai...d=D66SH&cat=13
    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D66SH
    http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=D82SH
    these are even more tollerant of temp swings and retain strength at even higher engine oil temps plus they are smaller and easier to use
    The SH material in the D66SH magnets, means that the magnets can be heated to 300° F without any loss of magnetic strength, unlike standard neodymium magnets that begin to lose strength at 175° F. Suitable for many high temperature applications.
    " IF YOU CAN,T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK!!"

  2. #2
    Technical Writer for Internet & Print Media
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    Well, heck, I don't understand all this high-techie talk about "anodes" but I was wondering about....
    Quote Originally Posted by grumpyvette View Post

    MAGNETS
    btw, add a few magnets to the oil pan and drain back area in your engine, the trap and hold metalic dust that comes from wear and increase engine life span by preventing that crap embedding in the bearings
    I heard from my mechanik that once you put magnets all over the pan and the back of the motor, you can remove your oil filter and cover the mount with a bypass block. He says you can do this because the magnets catch all that metallic dust that the filter did before. He says you take out that filter and you gain oil pressure and flow.

    Is this really true?

    (It's not really April 1st, yet, is it?)

  3. #3
    Member grumpyvette's Avatar
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    Default

    OBVIOUSLY your joking ....and probably confusing the hell out of the new guys, ......as Im sure your aware the magnets tend to limit damage,or potential damage simply because they tend to trap and hold fine metalic dust,like from lifter or rings wearing, now it should be obvious that most of the crud that finds its way inside an engine is not necessarily magnetic like bits of dirt,sealants,moisture, varnish etc. but there are times when those magnets are a huge plus,
    example,
    if youve ever busted a valve spring or a push rod , or had a lifter or cam lobe wear excessively, and later opened up the lifter gallery and found bits of the resulting crap, like a fragment of spring or a valve keeper or tip of a busted pushrod,etc. stuck to the magnets rather than finding its way into the oil pump rotors, youll see the advantages, the magnets over time trap a surprising amount of crap, even in an engine thats running correctly, but if you have a parts failure they can and do limit the crap circulating thru the engines oil flow and assist the filter in limiting the internal damage.

    ANODES

    ok, theres an excellent chance that the average engine has at least minimal coroasion internally due to the ENGINE being connected to the electrical circuit, (especially if the engine block and heads are a differant material(iron block/aluminum heads) and the block is grounded to the negitive battery ground and the starter to the possitive terminal with that starter grounded to the block, and a quick check with a digital volt meter will usually show a slight voltage flow from coolant too the block.
    adding an ANODE thats grounded to the block usually reduces the coroasion to the aluminum components in contact with the coolant.
    yes the antifreeze is designed to MINIMIZE the Electrolysis that occures with "two dissimilar metals in cotact with an electrolyte." and the coolant by design is a POOR conductor, but a quick check with a digital volt meter will usually show some minimal voltage flow, now that may or may not become critical, to durability but its usually present and an anode will tend to help durrability and slow the alumium degrading, if youve ever looked closely at the t-stat housing after its been run for a few years youver probably seen it.

    heres info from a ford test recommendation notice
    Testing For Electrolysis
    Check for voltage in the cooling system by touching the negative contact of a voltmeter to the battery ground or a known good ground and suspend the positive lead in the coolant, making sure it is in contact with the coolant but not touching any metal part of the radiator or cooling system. Both AC and DC voltages must be checked. Vehicles normally have DC voltages; however, a faulty engine block heater or faulty diode in the alternator can produce AC voltages. It is understood that coolant is lost due to heater core failure but try to obtain a voltage reading on the old coolant in the engine block before addition to or replacement of. To keep more coolant from exiting the heater core clamp off heater core lines and measure coolant in the engine block. Try not to dilute the original coolant with new coolant during testing if possible.
    Determine whether coolant condition is acceptable.
    Remove both cables from the battery and ensure they do not contact each other or the vehicle.
    Touch negative lead of voltmeter to engine ground and positive lead in the coolant.
    NOTE: POSITIVE TEST PROBE IS IN THE COOLANT FOR TESTING.

    Check the voltage in the cooling system. If less than or equal to 0.2 volts (V) OK, reconnect battery cables and proceed to Step 2.
    If greater than 0.4 V, flush cooling system thoroughly.


    http://www.coolingzone.com/index.php...=32&onmag=true

    Avoiding Galvanic Corrosion

    When selecting components for your cooling loop, you must consider their material compatibility as well as their individual performance. Although an aluminum cold plate paired with a copper-tubed heat exchanger might meet your thermal requirements, it is not a reliable cooling circuit. Copper and aluminum have widely different electrochemical potentials, so when they are combined in a cooling system, galvanic corrosion is likely. Galvanic corrosion (also called dissimilar metal corrosion) erodes the metal, causing leaks over time.
    In a cooling loop, metallic materials in electrochemical contact can form a galvanic cell, or battery (fig. 1). In a galvanic cell, when two metals with different electrical potentials are connected, there is a potential difference across them. The metal with the higher electrical potential becomes the anode, and the lower, the cathode. A current will flow from the anode to the cathode. The anode dissolves, or corrodes, to form ions. These ions drift into the water where they either stay in solution or react with other ions in the electrolyte. This process is known as galvanic corrosion.

    Fig. 1. Galvanic cell, or battery
    A galvanic cell requires three elements:
    Two electrochemically dissimilar metals,
    An electrically conductive path between the two metals, and
    An electrolyte to allow the flow of metal ions.
    In a typical liquid cooling circuit, the plumbing provides the electrically conductive path, and the aqueous coolant provides the electrolyte. In the copper/aluminum scenario mentioned above, the aluminum is the anode, the copper is the cathode and the cooling fluid is the electrolyte. Over time, the aluminum corrodes as it dissolves into the water.
    The galvanic corrosion rate depends on the electrical potential between the two metals. The Galvanic Series (fig. 2) orders metals based on the potential they exhibit in flowing seawater. The most reactive are at the top of the table, and the least reactive at the bottom.[/B][/I]

    BTW to anyone reading thru this, If your reading this and don,t think anodes work or that theres an excellent chance theres a small flow of voltage in the cars coolant that tends to cause problems in some cars and without getting into why,,they work or don,t to any great extent, or the voltage source because 99% of the people reading this could care less,
    Ill just ask this question, do you think an anode screwed into the block, intake manifold etc, has any beneficial effect on the average engine?
    http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/anode.html

    and If you say no! how do you explain the fact that the anodes IVE installed in dozens of cars , usually tend to degrade over time in most of those cars, personally I think its mostly due to bad grounds and guys adding water from the garden hose to the radiator if the coolants low but Im curious as to your view???

  4. #4
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    Of course....we're going to just forget the fact that the oil pan on Corvettes since 1996 is non-ferrous.

  5. #5
    twiget's Avatar
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    Nope, Nada, Nein

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    Of course....we're going to just forget the fact that the oil pan on Corvettes since 1996 is non-ferrous.
    That brings up a good point Hib. The LSx motors are all aluminum blocks, which is non-magnetic. And I'm guessing iron and steel parts are kept to a minimum in these motors to keep the wear on the block down. So how effective would magnets be in an LSx motor, when it is built with mostly non-magnetic metals?

    Jason

  6. #6
    Technical Writer for Internet & Print Media
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    Gen 3/4 engines in passenger cars and a few trucks, have aluminum blocks. Other blocks are cast iron.

    In the aluminum blocks, the liners are centrifugally cast iron. Other ferrous parts are cam and lifters, piston pins, rings, rods, cranks, bearings and perhaps some other items.

    Magnets, in theory, would catch wear metals. They are not going to be effective in a practical sense, unless you run with no oil filter then never change the oil.
    Hib Halverson

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