Renegade

**Buccaneer** · 07-18-11, 11:29 PM

POST DELETED BY OWNER... I can see where these posts will end up going, so I deleted my posts/comments.

**XLR8** · 07-19-11, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

POST DELETED BY OWNER... I can see where these posts will end up going, so I deleted my posts/comments.

If by that you mean folks will continue to ask for more than "he said he saw an increase of 30RWHP", I suspect you're correct.

**Hib Halverson** · 07-19-11, 09:20 AM

Once again, folks involved with the Renegade intake manifold appear unable to supply credible test data.

Owners of stock or near stock 82s or 84s with the L83 need to remember...buyer beware. It is my opinion that the Renegade may add some power at high rpm, but it's also my opinion that its effect on the rest of the torque curve is at least unknown and perhaps questionable.

That said, in looking at "Buccaneer's" sig line, the engine in his 82, which might have played a part in the Renegade's development, is highly modified. In addition to having some pretty serious valve train enhancements, the engine is a 383 rather than a 350 and it's got much better heads and higher compression. Typically, a displacement increase coupled with the those mods will "see" an intake manifold port volume increase much differently than will a smaller, less modified engine (ie: a stock or near stock L83). There's little question in my mind that a Renegade intake on a highly modified L83 would work pretty well and have a reasonably flat torque curve, but...

The most common "question" in this and other "Renegade Threads" has asked about how it works on a stock or near stock engine. When that question is posed, as best I can determine, little more than unsubstantiated boasting is been the response.

Time after time, those contributing to this and other "Renegade threads" have asked those advocating the Renegade ("nelson84", "Buccanneer" and a few others) for some test data. Time after time the vast majority of what's been posted in response seems to me to be the proverbial "smoke and mirrors". Granted, once or twice we've heard some round numbers describing increases in peak power, but the fact remains, we've never seen results from an A-B engine dyno or chassis dyno test which shows the before and after power and torque curves.

So, again, if you have a stock or mildly modifed 82 or 84 Crossfire motor, my advice is to take what you may "hear" about the Renegade with a grain of salt until someone posts some unbiased, comprehensive test data.

On the other hand, if you've got an 82 or 84 which has an engine which is significantly modifed and you want to retain the 2xTBI set-up, the Renegade might be a suitable alternative to the stock intake manifold.

**LLC5** · 07-19-11, 09:58 AM

Buccanner's deleted posts about unsubstantiated data would make me not want to buy a "Renegade". Not exactly great marketing.

**Dad** · 07-19-11, 10:24 AM

It's not really an issue because you can't buy one to test. I had in mind to take an '84, 2 available one with 50K and the other 70K plus, both automatics and do a good update/tune. There is a dyno 45 miles from me that can run the before and after for me. Actually I think 3 tests would be in order, one as it is now, one when tuned to as near new as it can be with those miles, and then after the Renegade is installed. Even at the $500 plus price you still can't buy one to do a good comparison. Actually I think a comparison of what a good tune on a tired engine would do for it would be of just as much interest as the manifold change would be.

I'm still looking at C4's to add to my small collection with an automatic to help out the old knees when I need to cruise, and a C4 would fill this gap. Doing the test would be a great project and it should put all the questions to bed or at least start a new thread on how it was done all wrong......

**nelson84** · 07-21-11, 11:52 AM

You can't get a renegade right away because there is such a line up to get one it will be awhile. Anything that will help a crossfire is worth a try.

Originally Posted by Hib Halverson

Once again, folks involved with the Renegade intake manifold appear unable to supply credible test data.Owners of stock or near stock 82s or 84s with the L83 need to remember...buyer beware. It is my opinion that the Renegade may add some power at high rpm, but it's also my opinion that its effect on the rest of the torque curve is at least unknown and perhaps questionable.That said, in looking at "Buccaneer's" sig line, the engine in his 82, which might have played a part in the Renegade's development, is highly modified. In addition to having some pretty serious valve train enhancements, the engine is a 383 rather than a 350 and it's got much better heads and higher compression. Typically, a displacement increase coupled with the those mods will "see" an intake manifold port volume increase much differently than will a smaller, less modified engine (ie: a stock or near stock L83). There's little question in my mind that a Renegade intake on a highly modified L83 would work pretty well and have a reasonably flat torque curve, but...The most common "question" in this and other "Renegade Threads" has asked about how it works on a stock or near stock engine. When that question is posed, as best I can determine, little more than unsubstantiated boasting is been the response. Time after time, those contributing to this and other "Renegade threads" have asked those advocating the Renegade ("nelson84", "Buccanneer" and a few others) for some test data. Time after time the vast majority of what's been posted in response seems to me to be the proverbial "smoke and mirrors". Granted, once or twice we've heard some round numbers describing increases in peak power, but the fact remains, we've never seen results from an A-B engine dyno or chassis dyno test which shows the before and after power and torque curves.So, again, if you have a stock or mildly modifed 82 or 84 Crossfire motor, my advice is to take what you may "hear" about the Renegade with a grain of salt until someone posts some unbiased, comprehensive test data.On the other hand, if you've got an 82 or 84 which has an engine which is significantly modifed and you want to retain the 2xTBI set-up, the Renegade might be a suitable alternative to the stock intake manifold.

**Dad** · 07-21-11, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by nelson84

You can't get a renegade right away because there is such a line up to get one it will be awhile. Anything that will help a crossfire is worth a try.

Does small run quantities, changes, setup costs, and budget constraints have anything to do with the unavailability or is it just backlog?

**nelson84** · 07-25-11, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dad

Does small run quantities, changes, setup costs, and budget constraints have anything to do with the unavailability or is it just backlog?

How would I Know I am just a customer that has a renegade that now runs high 13's instead of high 14's. My 84 is faster now with the renegade that is all that matters to me.

**catbert** · 07-25-11, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by nelson84

How would I Know I am just a customer that has a renegade that now runs high 13's instead of high 14's. My 84 is faster now with the renegade that is all that matters to me.

I don't know how you would know, but you have been the principle cheerleader for the Renegade on this and other forums. The Renegade may, or may not, be a great development, but you probably have no credibility on the subject because of your approach. If you want to help the Renegade gain acceptance, don't help them.

**Dad** · 07-25-11, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by nelson84

How would I Know I am just a customer that has a renegade that now runs high 13's instead of high 14's. My 84 is faster now with the renegade that is all that matters to me.

.

Sounds good, post up those before and after times slips.

**TedC** · 07-25-11, 11:08 AM

That is some jump in performance. I can only pull low 14s with my stock L98. Tire spin is my biggest enemy. I know a few LT1 owers who can't get below 14 seconds either.

**nelson84** · 07-27-11, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by TedC

That is some jump in performance. I can only pull low 14s with my stock L98. Tire spin is my biggest enemy. I know a few LT1 owers who can't get below 14 seconds either.

I also own an 85 TPI and my 84 with the renegade will pull away from it. I have switched drivers when racing the two vettes and same results. I prefer the crossfire over the TPI.

**racerxz51** · 10-11-11, 10:51 PM

I can only attest to my personal experience with the Crossfire but here goes. My 84 ran 15.5@88 dead stock. W/the cold air mod and K&N it went 15.4@89. 1.6 roller tips dropped it to 14.7@92 or 93. Fully porting the intake , including grinding off the EGR "hump" netted 14.3@96... TPI computer compatible grind and dart heads got it down to 13.8.
The Renegade offers an advantage over a ported CFI intake in that the runners are a more uniform and have the ability to flow more. A renegade intake on a otherwise stock CFI would probably only gain a couple hundered useable extra rpm and lose low end, at least add 1.6 rockers. i would be willing to bet that intake along with the Crane TPI cam, 1.6 rockers and headers would be a formidable combination.
I do not know the guys that developed the intake but as i built my car we conversed on the Crossfire Forum and I found them to be helpful and knowledgable. It looks to be well developed for a more heavily modded car, but for light mods i would suggest just porting the stock intake. Half a second for a little grinding isn't to be scoffed at. Just my 2 cents based on my experience.