Dealer dropped my C5 off lift -- need advice

[c5vetter]

again, I would let a lawyer be doing all the talking - not an insurance company

[reefdiver]

Looks like it might be time to play hardball with them. You were NOT INVOLVED in an accident........THEY DESTROYED YOUR VETTE.

[theblackvette]

"He was real puzzled you were acting like this?"

I am going to hold off before making any comments to this and just hope that they come around for you.

As I stated in my note, if this dealership handles this inappropriately then I would have a difficult time bringing my car to any chevrolet dealer for any service.

Let's give it over the weekend and see what happens. You never know. They just may "find" a suitable replacement over the weekend.

Good luck!

I am so sorry you have to go through this!

the blackvette

I spoke to CSAA told them to hold off on the claim. They have no problem putting the claim on hold as long as I want, or canceling. I told the adjuster what happened, and he expressed concern that they might miss something in a repair of this nature, and not even know until much later, in which case I would be out of luck.

I called Frank Fragomeni at Stewart's and told him that I will not authorize repairs until we have an understanding in writing of what they will do. He put the sales pitch on me, but I insisted on a replacement of equal or greater value. He said that it might be difficult to find another '97 with low miles and he wsn't sure he could do it. I pointed out (again and again) that it did not have to be a '97, but he wasn't interested. He was going to turn this over the the dealership insurance company and let them deal with it He has no say. He will tell them that I want a replacement or cash. (I get to have some say on the cash value, which I think should be the Blue Book private sale value, not trade-in value.) Anyway, he was real puzzled I was acting like this, because "a car is just a car." He said, if I were involved in a car accident on the road, I wouldn't expect the other driver to replace my car, so why should this be any different?

[JohnGrawcock]

Why wait for Steward's to find a replacement? Has anyone done a web search for 97 coupes yet? I'll bet we find one.

And: Let's talk math.

Our friend barnetdth should be able to purchase his replacement at the dealer of his choice. He needs roughly the blue book value of his 97 coupe as a settlement because that is what another dealer will be asking for said replacement.

On the other hand, dealers buy vehicles at wholesale price (basically same as trade-in) and there is a big gap between those numbers. Mr. Fragomeni could offer barnetdth a vehicle from several different model years and still come out ahead by falling into that gap. I sure don't get the feeling Steward's is trying to do the right thing here.

[TheBlueVette]

I sure don't get the feeling Steward's is trying to do the right thing here.

When I spoke to Frank yesterday, he was pretty clear that he had no interest in doing the right or making me happy. As far as he's concerned, this is why he has insurance. (his words)

I don't think Frank cares about online forums, or what Corvette owners think. He may not even know what the Internet is, as far as I can tell. If I Stewart's and saw that there was a discussion thread trashing the dealership, and (as of this morning) had over 5,800 hits on it, I would doing backflips to stop it. If I were GM, I'd assigning marketing and spin doctors to get this under control. I don't get it. Frank is trying to save a couple of thousand $$$ on this one, and ignoring all the bad publicity -- which I think would end up costing him at least a couple of sales and service.

Is there any easy way to find out the owner of Stewarts? Somebody has got to be smart enough to see the value of happy customers.

- Dave Barnett

[Tom Bryant]

Nobody hates paying lawers money more than I do but right now you are down to 2 options. This is starting to just go in circles.

1) Settle with your insurance company and go looking for a new Corvette. Let them fight with Stewarts. This will get you back in a car the fastest.

2) Get a lawyer and go on the attack. It's obviouse that Mr. Fragomeni is failing to understand that you were not involved in an accident at their shop. The damage to your car is totally a result of their negligence and the car will never be right again. If he isn't smart enough to realize that he won't stand a chance in front of one of those famous California jurys then I'll bet his insurance company is.

I believe he thinks he has got you backed into a corner on this and is going to be able to get out cheap. He is confident that his insurance co. will force you to accept repair or a cheap replacement.

It's time to show him you are not going to take any more of his stall tactics.

Tom

[koolaid117]

barnetdh,

1. Sorry to hear about your loss!

2. Time to quit playing, get an attorney. Fragomeni doesn't seem to care, why should you.

3. Go public with the facts. California is probably the car lover capital of the world. If people here at the CAC are behind you, your fellow Californians will be behind you.

4. Document, document, document! Lots of pics, RECORD phone calls if you can. In Ohio, it is legal to record if one person knows the conversation is being recorded. Go to Radio Shack and tell them you need to record some menacing phone calls. They can hook you up. Also, call Mr. Fragmented back and start asking the same old questions about your car, now you have HIS words to use.

5. Start a notebook and a file to document everything (redundant, sorry). Your handwritten notes will refresh your memory later.

6. DO NOT accept anything but complete satisfaction from them!!

7. Time to call in favors. You have to know someone that can help you with this situation in one way or another. I wouldn't be shy, tell everyone you know. Chances are, someone will know someone that can help.

I sent a message to them from their website tastefully expressing my dissatisfaction with them. Here is what I wrote:

Dear Sirs,
I am writing this to express my thoughts on the current progress on how your dealership is dealing with the fact that Dave Barnet's Corvette was totaled while in your care. Make no mistake, that car will never be right again. Regardless of what The Dukes of Hazard would have us believe, cars were not designed to be dropped from 6 feet in the air.
Being a reputable Chevrolet dealership in the area, you should understand the value of a happy customer. Replacing Mr. Barnet's car with another of at least the same value, if not more, will go much farther for your reputation and say alot about how you do business than the money you WILL lose when this story really gets out.
Your dealership should be falling all over yourselves to make Mr. Barnet happy for your mistake.
Please do the right thing.

ALso, WHEN they replace your car, you might want to keep an eye on them afterwards, because they may try to sell your "repaired" vette to cover some of their losses. Not sure what you can do, but someone may want to know.

Kudos to BV for leading the charge!!

Good Luck Dave! We are with you, if not in person, in spirit!

Jim

[Bob Chadwick]

I agree with Tom Bryant. You can settle with your insurance company or get an attorney. If you settle with your insurance company, the case is closed now, you get the value of your car and you can go find a new one. If you get an attorney, you may settle right away, or it may drag out for a year or more. If you are willing to settle for the acv of your car it will likely go away right now However, you will be out 1/3rd to 40% of the value of your settlement in attorney's fees and you won't be able to replace your Vette without coming out of pocket.

If you want money for fraud, etc. I can guarantee that the dealer and their insurance company wont settle with you and you will be forced to file suit. California has a rocket docket on cases such as this, which means you will be assigned a trial date in aproximately a year from the filing. Their will be a bunch of discovery and while you won't pay any attorney's fees because he is going to get 1/3rd to 40% of any settlement you reach, you will be on the hook for any expenses that are incurred for court reporters, etc. One transcript from a court reporter costs between $250 and 500, sometimes more. During all of this time, your attorney will likely be blowing smoke up your behind about what a great case you have. About 60 days before trial you will be required to go to a Court ordered mediation or settlement conference. You wll sit there and listen to both sides of the case presented by the lawyers. By thiis time your passion will have gone away, you are hearing about a 2 - 3 day trial and you just want to be done with the whole thing. The mediator will go back and forth between both parties pocking holes in their cases. You will get a little nervous and wonder whether or not you can get what you thought you could out of the case. In most cases you will settle. You may get some additional money but after fees and expenses I would be surprised if you net as much as you could have gotten today with a straight settlement with your insurance company.

If you don't settle, you will go to trial with all of the uncertainty associated with that. Since in the Court's eyes this will be a small property damage case, there will be a lot of pressure to settle the case as the Judge won't want to tie up his court room. The party that the Judge feels held up the settlement will feel additional pressure during the course of the trial.

Right now I'm monitoring a 4 day trial in Federal Court in Pine Bluff, Arkansas for my client. I'm watching both sides of the case and I can tell you both of them wish this thing was over with. Plaintiff has put up economic losses of $800,000 and at this point knows that the jury is not buying into it. The defense side is worried because it looks like the value of the case is more than they thought. I wouldn't be surprised to see the case settle sometime today before the jury comes back as close to 99% do.

Lawyers are sometimes a necessary evil. I don't feel that this is one of this cases. When I recommened to people to get a lawyer is when the injury is catastophic, such as the loss of a limb, closed head injury, etc., where there are a lot of non-economic damages for permancency, etc. In a property damage case these itmes are not there and the only one that comes out ahead is the attorney.

You need to be aware that the dealers insurance company deals with layers every day. I know I do. I have no fear of them. They put their pants on one leg a time just like everybody else.

Get this thing to their insurance company and use the insurance commisioner's office to your advantage and get this thing settled.

Good luck.

[theblackvette]

however, it is becoming difficult to do so reading barnetdh's last couple of posts.

I will try to continue to refrain from making any negative comments at this time. However, you should begin to pay close attention to the other CAC members' comments.

Thanks to everyone for helping out in this rally. The actions of this dealership may represent the actions that your dealership would take in a similar situation. It is important to closely monitor this situation and do what we can to help barnetdh get the treatment he deserves!

Personally, I think you need to seek out the owner at this time and let him know what is going on and give him my note, as long as copies of the posts here from other concerned Corvette owners.

You ask how to find the owner? That should not be difficult. A simple phone call to the dealership itself asking should get you the name and contact phone number. My dealership owner has his own office and is readily available. Perhaps, this person may be too. It is likely the last name of the owner is Stewart.

Perhaps finding the owner may give you better results. Maybe, just maybe, the owner has in his possession a couple of corvettes that he takes to shows and may be able to relate to what it means to own a corvette. But yes, if it is time for anything, it is time to contact the owner of this dealership.

I would first call the dealership and simply ask them how he can be reached. I think you will get your answer then. If that doesn't work then go back to the dealership and go to the information desk and ask them. If that doesn't work, ask one of the guys selling the cars who the owner is and how he can be reached? They would certainly know. The next person to ask would be the Service Manager. If that gets you nowhere then the next step is to ask the General Manager who the owner is and a contact number. Your last resort would be to contact General Motors and obtain the information from them.

However, I am certain that you would be able to obtain the name and contact information very quickly. It is time for you to discuss this matter with the owner!!!!!!!

I am really perplexed why you seem to be taking the heat for this. Explain to your General Manager that your car is NOT just a car. I assume you take it to cruise-ins and stuff. You probably wash that car all the time. Also, he doesn't know about how you live your life. And lastly, you are the customer. The customer is always right! And since you want a replacement car and the customer is always right, then you should be entitled to a replacement car.

Best regards,

the blackvette

When I spoke to Frank yesterday, he was pretty clear that he had no interest in doing the right or making me happy. As far as he's concerned, this is why he has insurance. (his words)

I don't think Frank cares about online forums, or what Corvette owners think. He may not even know what the Internet is, as far as I can tell. If I Stewart's and saw that there was a discussion thread trashing the dealership, and (as of this morning) had over 5,800 hits on it, I would doing backflips to stop it. If I were GM, I'd assigning marketing and spin doctors to get this under control. I don't get it. Frank is trying to save a couple of thousand $$$ on this one, and ignoring all the bad publicity -- which I think would end up costing him at least a couple of sales and service.

Is there any easy way to find out the owner of Stewarts? Somebody has got to be smart enough to see the value of happy customers.

- Dave Barnett

[JR_Vette]

2. Time to quit playing, get an attorney. Fragomeni doesn't seem to care, why should you.

I agree. F'em. It's time to get a lawyer involved, and settle this. If they have started to repair your car, stop them. GET ON THE PHONE TO YOUR LAWYER NOW!!!!!!

[MM-C5]

Bobchad's advice is good because he speaks with the experience and knowledge of how these things really work.

I've personally sat through one of those CA arbitrations, got the snot beat out of me by the arbitrator and had my own attorney counsel to accept the arbitration. The end all be all is that I felt like I got hosed by everyone around the table and the only ones who made any $$ were the attorneys.

You mentioned earlier in the thread that there were Media opportunities to draw upon. I would think they would eat this up if they got wind of the story or the national reaction it has created among Corvette owners.

Break to news lead in of heavy music:

"Local Chevrolet Dealer Drops Customer's Corvette - Refuses To Make Things Right. Corvette Owner's Nationwide Upset and Howling For Justice"

Full Story at 11.

Or maybe an investigative article in the San Francisco Comical. Shoot, maybe even Chris Matthews will want to play Hardball with Stewart. Gotta be somebody on the Left Coast that can draw some high profile attention to this.

[Erik S. Klein]

Dave,

Here is the corporate information the CA Secretary of State database has for public consumption. There's not much there that you don't already know. The Agent for Service is probably the company lawyer and is unlikely to be the owner.

You can get additional information, for a fee, by filling out the form at http://www.ss.ca.gov/business/corp/pdf/ircform.pdf

Corporation

STEWART CHEVROLET, INC.

Number: C1257954

Date Filed: 9/25/1984

Status: merged out

Jurisdiction: California

Mailing Address

780 SERRAMONTE BLVD.

COLMA, CA 94014

Agent for Service of Process

PAUL A MONTALBANO

780 SERRAMONTE BLVD.

COLMA, CA 94014

If you decide to go with a lawyer then they can get far more information from their systems.

In the end, Bobchad's advice is probably best. Take the insurance company settlement (after making sure you won't suffer any increased rates - which you shouldn't) and go buy another car at another dealership.

My personal favorite is Courtesy Chevrolet (http://www.courtesychevrolet.com), the largest Corvette dealer in the Bay Area (I'd ask for Kevin). There are, of course, tons of other places in our neck of the woods and tons of cars for you to choose from. You will fill the hole left by the loss of your 97.

Once you've decided to go the insurance company route, make as big a stink as possible to demolish Stewart's reputation (such as it is) in the Corvette community.

This thread is a great place to start. There are a dozen other Corvette forums out there and members of each will be as shocked and angered as we all were. Go and cross-post a link to this discussion far and wide.

Remember not to post anything that isn't true, of course, but since the truth is shocking enough you should be able to make a dent in their business.

If you're feeling really froggy you can make up a sign with pictures of your lost baby and text that reads "Stewart's did this to my car during an oil change" or something like that. Stand in the driveway to the service entrance and make sure folks can see you. Keep in mind that they won't be pleased and they may send out some "muscle" though.

In any event, your best course of action is to get this behind you as quickly as possible and get your ass into some new glass fast.

In a few years all of this will be a funny water-cooler story and little more.

Best of luck!

BTW, my note to Stewart (sales department) read:

Hello Sales Department,

Please share this message with the rest of your establishment and especially the owner.

I am writing because I was made aware of an unfortunate incident at your service facilities with Dave Barnett's 1997 Corvette.

The incident, while upsetting to anyone who appreciates Corvettes, isn't nearly as upsetting as your dealership's handling of the issue.

Based on what I've heard and inferred from your responses there is no way that I could ever consider using your dealership for service or the purchase of a vehicle.

In short, you've lost a potential customer in me and in everyone I can find who will listen. Folks at the Corvette Clubs I am a member of (including Santa Clara Corvettes and the Northern California chapter of NCRS) and the events and shows I attend will all be fascinated by this story.

I realize that I haven’t heard your side of the story directly and I’d be happy to do so; but for me actions speak louder then words and your actions haven’t yet said anything good about your ability to care for your customers.

Best regards,

[Edmond]

I hate to say this but Corvette sales aren't the "bread and butter" when it comes to Chevy dealerships. At least that's what my friend who sells at a local Chevy dealer told me. He said that they make money by selling trucks, SUVs and Cavaliers.

Just letting everyone in the Corvette community know about this isn't enough; we have to let everyone know. I'm going to post a link on any forum that I'm a member of to let them know. We have to spread the word beyond the Corvette community.

[SPANISHVETTS]

After another day of thought on this the solution is clear. Get the best settlement your can from your insurance company. Let their lawyers worry about Stewart. With cash in hand buy your next Vette from an Individual.

Remember the lesson learned here; never darken the doors of a dealership again. Find a good Vette shop to service your next Vette or better yet do it your self. If you think that driving a Vette is fun just wait until you’ve busted a few knuckles and burnt the soft meat between your thumb and index finger on the exhaust manifold. I could never love a car that I did not know in an intimate manner.

[froggy47]

I could not send Stewart an email, their stupid web page does not allow an email address with "_" (underscore) in it. What morons!

Sorry dude, your Vette is history, cut your losses, don't buy into ANY repair scenario. Demand an equivalent vehicle of YOUR choice. This is a long shot - the dealer is first a businessman - I would say there is about 1 chance in 50 that you & dealer will agree on a replacement Vette.

I do not usually recommend lawyers, as they just get a big piece of what should be your compensation. (Ask me how I know).

Since you notified your insurance ( a good thing in this case) let them do the work. It's what you pay the premium for. Encourage the ins. co. to total it - there is some leeway here based on my personal experience with ins. adjusters.

We are all emotional about our Vettes, but in the end it will be a $$$$$ figure that settles the whole matter.