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Thread: Black Boxes?

  1. #1
    New Member wildwilly's Avatar
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    Default Black Boxes?

    Maybe I was not paying to much attention the other night but NBC said a lot of cars since 1996 have little boxes connected to your car digital info system recording speed, braking, wheel spin etc. Does my 2002 Z06 and others have this. They showed little electronic gagets that would be hooked in the wiring system.
    Last edited by wildwilly; 01-09-13 at 08:57 PM. Reason: misspelling

  2. #2
    Gone but not forgotten XLR8's Avatar
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    I'm not aware of any kind of BLACK BOX on the C5 but I think the C6 did come equipped with something to that effect. I don't know if that was its intended purpose, but I think there were reports of the info being accessed during crash investigations.

    Jane Ann

    For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble.





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    Technical Advisor c4c5specialist's Avatar
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    HI there,

    The "black boxes' are actually silver for the most part and constantly monitor this data.

    When and ONLY when the airbags deploy in an accident is the data actually saved for retrieval later on.

    The control module is called a sensing and diagnostic module and its ONLY job is to deploy airbags. But in order to do so, it must know vehicle speed, braking position and many other factors to deploy them CORRECTLY.

    If you have an airbag system, its in there.

    Allthebest, Paul
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    Gone but not forgotten XLR8's Avatar
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    Learn something new everyday.
    Thanks for the info, Paul!
    And I hope you have a happy and prosperous New Year!
    Jane Ann
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    For every person with a spark of genius, there are a hundred with ignition trouble.





  5. #5
    Mac
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    When we discussed control modules in the past, the consensus was that police would require a search warrant in order to collect evidence in the form of a download.

    -Mac
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  6. #6
    Technical Writer for Internet & Print Media
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    When we discussed control modules in the past, the consensus was that police would require a search warrant in order to collect evidence in the form of a download.

    -Mac
    Corvette has has SIRs since 1990 and the SIR has always had some form of recording. As to what specific data is (or has been) recorded I'm not sure, nor do I know the length of the loop (it's probably a second or so), but I can surmise that over time, the amount of data has increased. I suspect in recent years, these recorders are saving throttle position, brake application, the VSS signal and maybe lateral acceleration. The loop is probably saved at SIR deployment.

    My guess is, from a legal standpoint, post incident, the owner of the data is screwed because if he/she refuses to allow access, the insurance company and others investigating may take that as evidence of wrong doing and then they'll get the warrant. The question is, once some government entity, though a warrant, has the data, who besides them gets access after that.

    Some have said, "Well, I'll just disconnect or otherwise disable the recorder". Bad idea. When there's an incident and those doing investigations find the recorder has been tampered with, then they have evidence of premeditation.

    Any way you cut it, SIR recording is good for the car companies (they find out what happens to their cars in a wreck), good for insurance companies (they can cut pay outs), good for government (it can prosecute violators easier) but bad for privacy.

  7. #7
    Mac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hib Halverson View Post
    Corvette has has SIRs since 1990 and the SIR has always had some form of recording. As to what specific data is (or has been) recorded I'm not sure, nor do I know the length of the loop (it's probably a second or so), but I can surmise that over time, the amount of data has increased. I suspect in recent years, these recorders are saving throttle position, brake application, the VSS signal and maybe lateral acceleration. The loop is probably saved at SIR deployment.

    My guess is, from a legal standpoint, post incident, the owner of the data is screwed because if he/she refuses to allow access, the insurance company and others investigating may take that as evidence of wrong doing and then they'll get the warrant. The question is, once some government entity, though a warrant, has the data, who besides them gets access after that.

    Some have said, "Well, I'll just disconnect or otherwise disable the recorder". Bad idea. When there's an incident and those doing investigations find the recorder has been tampered with, then they have evidence of premeditation.

    Any way you cut it, SIR recording is good for the car companies (they find out what happens to their cars in a wreck), good for insurance companies (they can cut pay outs), good for government (it can prosecute violators easier) but bad for privacy.
    Any source of information available on the data bus is likely recorded. From an engineering perspective, it makes sense. If a datum is available, grab it!

    I doubt much data is recovered by car manufacturers or insurance companies and, even then, it is likely in high profile cases or those where media attention is focused on an incident. For their purposes, the threshold of evidence is far easier to meet than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" threshold required criminal investigations. Collision forensic reconstruction can usually piece together most of the information based on the physical evidence. From the police perspective, the recorder would like be used to corroborate the findings of the reconstruction rather than as primary evidence and the data is circumstantial. In other words, the recorder might say the throttle was WOT but it doesn't say whose foot was on the loud pedal. Depending on the jurisdiction, getting a search warrant might not be worth the time/paperwork involved.

    As far as the privacy aspect, you're right however I would point out that the expectation of privacy when driving on a public roadway is very low.

    -Mac
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  8. #8

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    My guess would be that they know far more than we would want them to kind of like how the onstar guy can unlock your door from Atlanta

    i10fwy

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    Hi there,

    Even at the dealership level, we cannot access deployment data. A special reader is used and an independent party downloads the information.

    Allthebest, Paul
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