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  1. #1
    New Member
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    Corvette(s)
    1987 conv

    Default performance upgrade

    got an 87 vert, was pretty sure about my upgrade plans, was gonna do the accel super-ram & base, cam, adjustable fuel reg, and porting the stock heads for now. from lurking and reading everyone said this should work ok, lose very little bottom end and pick up another 1000rpm at the top end. spoke to a very reputable builder here in NY and he said that he has not had very good luck tuning that combo on a basically stock motor. he said it's way too big intake for the stock 350, but would be fine with a 383. I don't have any plans in the very near future to get into the bottom end. I'm sure I will eventually which is why I don't want to waste money just porting the stock intake.


    any help please


    sorry so long


    chris

  2. #2
    Registered User 74bigblock's Avatar
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    2008 Z06 / 2006 BMW 330i Spt Pkg

    Default

    just slap on some headers and an intake. I read somewhere very recently on here about the intakes on the L98 cars being designed for the 305 motor. So I say slap that intake on, headers and exhaust if you don't already have. That should get you about 30HP.

  3. #3
    Vettefan87's Avatar
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    1987 Z52 Black Convertible

    Default

    You might want to check out the thread I started about TPIS Headers, Mad-Mic who has a set said you can see gains with headers, and a good free flowing exhaust from 30-50 HP, just with the headers, that and an intake should produce some nice numbers I would think.

  4. #4
    Member WhalePirot's Avatar
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    1984 White Z-51/ZF6-40/Shinoda body

    Default Smart man, here

    Ask questions, listen to those who know and spend money last!

    You could start with ceramic-coated headers and a better flowing exhaust, which are rather easy to install, and would serve any future mods as well, unless you decide to install a Rat Motor.

    It sounds like you have an honest builder there and he should steer you well through a SYSTEMATIC approach to your desired powerplant. For example, throwing a big throttle body on a stock engine is a waste of cash. Most ads claim, "UP to XXX h.p. gained". That number starts at zero OR LESS, but on a properly designed and balanced engine, the top-claimed number might be realized.

    I quickly discount hot rodders who approach mods through a bigger-is-better route. There are plenty who claim that a piece of gear on their car made 'feel-able' improvements. Few will tell you as I was told; for example, that the MSD box is a waste on most engines; that the HEI works quite well on a normally aspirated, sub-7000 RPM engine, etc., etc.

    I am not picking on anyone or on any aftermarket equipment; just seek true results and honest sellers. Mad Mic has spent wisely, it seems, and has time slips to document his success. That is why we respect him, his results and his forthrightness. Actually, most members here don't blow smoke about their cars, unlike many other car forums.

    I also read the 305 cid claim WRT the intake but would like to know the original source of that info.
    409 cid four bolt, forged crank/11:1/alum. Dart Pro-1/FMS-30pph@45 psi/BBK 52mm/'90 ECM Custom chip/Lingenfelter SuperRam/Comp Cams hydr. roller 230i-236e@050 /TPIS long tubes 3"/'84 Corvette cat/Flowmasters/ BeCool rad./FlowTech water pump/180* 'stat/3.54:1 rear gears +case cryo hardened/Bilsteins: 'Challenge' specs/Heim jointed rear suspension; all poly/ZF6-40 by ZF Doc//I.M.I. mini-starter/Battery inside/Electric HydroBoost brakes/FatMatted/Shinoda body/updated PwrWindows

  5. #5
    Member Edmond's Avatar
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    If I recall correctly, it was either Jeff or Ken that said the TPI intakes were originally made with the 305's in mind. I also read that somewhere on www.thirdgen.org a few times.

    The first things you have to decide are what you want to do with the car and how much you can spend.

  6. #6
    Vettefan87's Avatar
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    1987 Z52 Black Convertible

    Default

    I recall reading it in some Corvette book or even a documentery that the 350 was a last minute decision and they already had the intakes made for the 305 that they were going to use so they just slapped them on there. I am 100% sure though.

  7. #7
    Member redc4corvette's Avatar
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    1994 Red vert 1986 Blue Silver vette coupe

    Default

    I think what your builder might have wanted to say is you will lose tork and gain some mph and rpm's.

    But if you don't do anything with the exaust then you might keep some of the tork and not gain as much mph,rpm's.

    What you will be doing is called squeezing and that is hard to tune to .

  8. #8
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    1987 conv

    Default

    what the builder was saying Is that the super-ram is too big for a stock 350 (even with a mild cam) he said big heads, and cam,gears are needed to tune correctly.


    which Ive heard people in this forum say works fine with good gains


    whos right


    chris

  9. #9
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    1995 Red Coupe *Sold* 1997 Silver Coupe *Sold*

    Default

    If I may suggest some light reading before you get started.

    John Lingenfelter's Book on Modifying the Small Block Chevy. You can pick it up at Amazon, or even Mid America for less than $20. There is some very good information in that book including some indepth discussion on the Super Ram intake (Lingenfelter Designed it).

    Brett

  10. #10
    Member Edmond's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zapc
    what the builder was saying Is that the super-ram is too big for a stock 350 (even with a mild cam) he said big heads, and cam,gears are needed to tune correctly.


    which Ive heard people in this forum say works fine with good gains


    whos right


    chris
    Both. In order to see the advertised results of the SR, you will need bigger heads, cam and gears. May as well throw in exhaust because the stock L98 exhaust is very inadequate.

    Will it work fine with a stock 350? Yes, but in order to get those type of gains, you will be doing heads, cam and gears.

  11. #11
    Member c4cruiser's Avatar
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    Corvette(s)
    87 Gold Z52 Coupe 02 EB Z51 Supercharged Coupe

    Default

    Even port-matching the plenum runners will be a help and it doesn't take a lot of work. Anything that disrupts the flow thru the runners should be eliminated. Stay with the stock 48mm TB unless you go to a 383 motor, then I would not go beyond 52mm.

    Have a good valve job done and do some smoothing in the ports. Have the heads checked for any warping.

    An adjustable pressure regulator may not give a lot of HP but once you go with something like a superram and/or larger injectors you may see some benefit to changing the fuel pressure. In any event, replace the fuel filter to insure a steady flow. I think the 87 is the only year with a return filter, so it wouldn't hurt to change that too.

    Use quality components in a rebuild. Don't skimp on pistons, rings and bearings. Some people report gains with 1.6 roller rockers on a stock cam. Pick a cam that gives you the HP and torque cureves you want. Too many people over-cam an motor and then can't figure out why it won't make power.

    A good engine builder will pay attention to the details. Make sure the engine has a good balance job, an align bore if needed and accurate deck height machining; it will help with engine life and may be worth a few HP.
    A good set of long tube headers like Hooker or TPIS will help coupled with a free-flowing cat-back exhaust. If you have to run cats for emissions, look at the free-flow versions. Air intake on earlier C4's need to be improved. A simple cutting of the air filter lid works better than stock and you can get systems that take air in from the radiator shroud. Breathless Performance has some systems for C4's but some people say it's pretty thin and doesn't always fit right.

  12. #12
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    1987 conv

    Default

    thanx for the posts people but I think everyone is missing the initial point of my question,

    I already have a cat-back system, and airbox.I was going to port the stock intake but even if I do it myself for no cost, it's a waste of time because when I do the rest of the motor over, the super-ram will be great

    I was hoping to do the super-ram now,and be happy with the gains.then at some later date do the 383 and good heads and really take advantage of the super-ram.

    the builder is saying that I won't be happy with the gains from the super-ram at all untill I do the rest of the motor.and to do the whole package at once, and live with the car as is for now

    thanx

  13. #13
    Member WhalePirot's Avatar
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    1984 White Z-51/ZF6-40/Shinoda body

    Default

    1) How about CAT forward, then? Payoffs, now; + payoffs, later.

    2) Perhaps a rear ratio change, based upon what your new engine will deliver and how you will drive it.

    I really like the idea of the access to fuel system components on OTHER THAN the SuperRam, but it depends upon what characteristics you want in your engine. The SUPER may give you a slightly stronger low end, but is a PITA to install and seal. A stroker kit will give good low end, too,when you do the rest of the engine.

    Ya know, most of the 'half-way' stuff is just not satisfying. Better to save, be patient and do a total solution at one time. 1 and 2, above, still apply, though.
    409 cid four bolt, forged crank/11:1/alum. Dart Pro-1/FMS-30pph@45 psi/BBK 52mm/'90 ECM Custom chip/Lingenfelter SuperRam/Comp Cams hydr. roller 230i-236e@050 /TPIS long tubes 3"/'84 Corvette cat/Flowmasters/ BeCool rad./FlowTech water pump/180* 'stat/3.54:1 rear gears +case cryo hardened/Bilsteins: 'Challenge' specs/Heim jointed rear suspension; all poly/ZF6-40 by ZF Doc//I.M.I. mini-starter/Battery inside/Electric HydroBoost brakes/FatMatted/Shinoda body/updated PwrWindows

  14. #14
    Banned SSTibet's Avatar
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    1995 6 Speed Manual Coupe

    Default

    Guys,

    What I am short of getting in these discussions is the answer to the question "how much of available Hp / Torque are you really using and you need more???"... Unless the car is on a drag strip, why would you need another xxx Hp for $$$$$$$$ ???

    Must be a hobby type of thing I assume.

    Selim

  15. #15
    JEFNLSA's Avatar
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    Corvette(s)
    Blk/Blk '96 LT4 Coupe

    Default

    Just my .02 Selim,

    Horsepower is addictive....once you start modding it's hard to stop. I'm learning that 1st hand!

    Jeff
    GM Hot Cam - EM Longtube Headers - BBK 52mm TB - PCMforless Tune
    B&M Shifter - Meziere HD EWP - SLP CAI - Big Mouth Air Dam
    Grand Sport Calipers - BP Drilled & Slotted Black Rotors
    Magnaflow SS 3" Exhaust - RD EWP Camber Brace
    Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3's in 285's & 315's
    Goodridge SS Lines - Hawk HPS Pads
    GM 30mm/26mm Solid Sway Bars
    QA1 12way Adjustable Shocks
    Lowered Front & Rear
    Centerforce Clutch
    ~ 4.10 Gears ~

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