What's wrong with our brakes?

[norvalwilhelm]

I keep reading posts talking about upgrading our brakes and can't see the problem, at least not thousands of dollars worth.
I feel the hydraboost is the biggist improvement anyone needs, I am not talking about a company but the unit available at any wrecking yard. They are both powerful and cheap used.
That said I have 4 stainless sleeved calipers, the calipers while a little heavy do have 4 live pistons, the casting is rigid and the pistons are large for good clamping pressure.
Our rotors are 12 inches and with a good resurfacing and a little work with a dial indicator and shims can be made to run perfectly true or at least within .002.
I also replace all flex lines with stainless flex lines.
I also run the NON power master with the hydraboost from a one ton for a little extra line pressure.
I do run organic pads to save the rotors, my back 2 are original while the front were replaced back in the 70's.
The combination of hydraboost, small master and perfectly true rotors makes for brakes far more powerful then I will ever need.
Because I like holes I did drill all 4 rotors full of holes and turned the inside down to remove 3 pounds from each rotor and so far no sign of fatigue cracks and I do check all rotors yearly.
If you want a one time panic stop from any speed the organic pads work great and save the rotors but if you want repeated stops the performance friction pads work great and the 3rd panic stop from 100 mph was better then the first but my rotors took too much of a beating.
I can't see spending thousands on different calipers, even 6 piston when their area is most of the time less then our 4 1 7/8th pistons.

I was doing a bad thing last Saturday, I was playing with another guy, running at 80 to 90 down a secondary road, he was in front and I was following close waiting for a staight away, the road was quit hilly.
We went over the crest of a hill me a few car lengths behind him when he had to pull brakes really hard, a car had pulled out of the driveway over the crest, anyway he pulled brakes and I had only an instant to realize this and hit mine. All 4 wheels locked instantly and I wasn't aware that I had hit them that hard but I easily outbraked him and he had more warning. My brakes at 80 plus still had no problem with the lockup and they felt strong.
Why do I need 13 inch rotors, 1 inch more then I have now?? Why do I need better calipers???
All you need is hydraboost, the product, good stainless calipers, good flex lines and proper trued rotors.
I will keep my present brakes plus the thousands it would take for something inferior.
I never feel I need more brakes, never.
VAcuum boosters will not cut it.

[67HEAVEN]

No arguments from me.

[76okievette]

I have stock brakes on my "76", with new lines, pads' and the rotors turned and they work perfect, I agree the brakes put on these cars were plenty all they need is to be maintained.

[Culprit]

I have VB&P stainless steel sleeved calipers, stainless flex hoses and a fairly new set of organic pads. Original un-touched rotors and master cylinder. No problems whatsoever, and no complaints either.

Somebody please explain the basic principles of the hydraboost to me and how it works. I don't feel a need for it - but wouldn't mind learning something new. Thanks.

Semper Fidelis,
Culprit

[tomtom72]

Hi guys, I agree about the C2-C3 brakes. I don't have one now, but had a 72 in 77-84. Once I got the system up to speed, which took me a while cause I didn't understand the system, they were the .09 cents change from the .10 stop! I remember when the C4s first came out that they had some bad traits till chevy got it sorted, and most mags referred to the older cars as having better brakes. I didn't have power brakes, and once sorted out I thought that every car should have brakes this good! The only bad point was the cast iron calipers, once they started to rust it was over. Other than that I still feel of any American production car untill the 90s when 4-wheel discs became the norm the vettes were miles ahead and safer cars for the choice of chevy using the 4-wheel discs. I know comparing a vette to a normal car is unfair, but brakes are important to feeling safe in a car to me. I have a question, isn't Hydroboost the system that uses the Power steering pump instead of a vac. booster to help with preassure? I think I remember Ford? in the late 70s on Lincolns? had introed that as a alternative. I know my LT-1 had no vac at idle and I don't know how well P/B would have worked but I know it was an option, I never felt that the system needed P/B. tt72

[norvalwilhelm]

I have VB&P stainless steel sleeved calipers, stainless flex hoses and a fairly new set of organic pads. Original un-touched rotors and master cylinder. No problems whatsoever, and no complaints either.

Somebody please explain the basic principles of the hydraboost to me and how it works. I don't feel a need for it - but wouldn't mind learning something new. Thanks.

Semper Fidelis,

Culprit

Hdraboost is a small compact very powerful brake booster used in place of the normal vacuum booster. Diesel vans and trucks don't produce vacuum so they used the power steering pump with generates up to 1500 psi, not in our case which is around 900-1000 psi oil pressure to operate the brakes. The unit is just a piston that the power steering oil pressure works on. The bigger the internal piston the more pressure generated.
The unit is so compact that bigblocks with tall vavle covers easily clear the small unit.
The good thing for us is that anything in the 80 and 90's is almost a bolt in deal. Even our stock power master cylinders bolt right up to the unit.
Wild cams? no problem. The unit cares nothing about vacuum.
In power assist the vacuum unit can't come close. A used hydraboost runs $50 here and there are lots in the wrecking yards.
It really gives the old vacuum assisted brakes a big boost and get rid of that large vacuum resovior.
The units are very reliable, ford uses a version of it, looks almost the same and if the power steering pump dies the unit works with power for one stop and then after that it is manual and not the hard pedal our vacuum brakes experience when the motor dies.
It is a good system, can be bought cheaply at the wreckers or new from a vendor on the forum, complete ready to bolt on.

[67HEAVEN]

Norval,

Once I'm mobile, if I'm unhappy with the vacuum available for boost, I'll be contacting you for a more detailed discussion.

One reason that I didn't go the hydraboost route already is the lack of power steering on my car.....however, once I try steering with the new wide rubber I may have to take care of that too.

[76okievette]

Norval,
This sounds very interesting, do I understand correctly that the hydroboost "pump" goes in place of the big vac boost that is there now? Do I also understand that it would reguire a line to be run from the power steering pump to this hydroboost pump? I would be interested in more detailed info on how to convert my 76 to this type of brakes.

[Vette/Berlina-coupe]

-recall reading somewhere that there is indeed an electric-powered 1,000-psi booster available for those with manual steering, -possibly for racecar requirements; ---which would make for an interesting selective usage (ie: -if you're just running an off-highway errand it is not really needed at low speeds)... ~B.vH

[Culprit]

Norval - thanks for the explanation.

Semper Fi,
Culprit