View Full Version : Take that, Cindy!
DarkShark
05-13-06, 09:31 AM
Here's a better approach to dealing with the loss of a son in the Long War...
_______________________________________________________________
Grief Compels Marine's Dad to Support War
By TERRY KINNEY
Associated Press Writer
FAIRFIELD, Ohio - A soft-spoken suburban real-estate broker, John Prazynski didn't consider himself political and never expected to become a public figure, much less a pro-war activist. But in the year since his son Taylor, a Marine, died in
Iraq, Prazynski has devoted much of his time to supporting the troops through fundraisers, two trips to Camp Lejeune, N.C., and interviews backing the war effort.
"I could easily have gone the other way," Prazynski said. He says his activism is a tribute to his son, trying to "make something positive happen out of something so negative. That's what Taylor would want us to do."
Marine Lance Cpl. Taylor Prazynski, 20, died May 9, 2005, of shrapnel wounds from a mortar shell that exploded near him during combat in Anbar Province. In his last phone calls, the fun-loving, popular man who had spent much of his senior year of high school helping special-needs students told his father he wanted to become a special education teacher.
Since his son's death, Prazynski, 43, has been interviewed repeatedly about the war while organizing a series of 5-kilometer runs and motorcycle rides to raise money for scholarships for students who attend his son's high school.
"I do this to keep Taylor's memory alive," Prazynski said.
On opening day of the baseball season in Cincinnati, he joined
President Bush and two wounded soldiers on the field in pregame ceremonies. Prazynski said he wanted to thank Bush for his support "and give him two thumbs up with his positive stance on security, military and veterans' issues."
The former Air Force tech school instructor shares the pain — but not the viewpoint — of Cindy Sheehan, who became a high-profile war protester after her son Casey was killed in Iraq in April 2004.
"She's grieving, as we are," Prazynski said. "She's chosen to direct her energies in a different direction. I say God bless her.
"My son died for the Constitution that allows her to do what she's doing. Her son died, and God bless him, too, to support and defend the Constitution that gives her the right to speak freely, and I'm all for that right.
"I just don't think that I clearly understand what her agenda is."
Sheehan, who helped found Gold Star Families for Peace, has called for the impeachment of Bush, whom she says duped America into invading Iraq.
Prazynski understands the constant hurt of losing a child, and why such a loss has turned some grieving parents against the war. Even now, he said, "Every day is painful."
The father searched the Internet and found several groups he felt he could support, but chose Impact Player Partners because it was based in nearby Cincinnati. The nonprofit group, an advocate for wounded and disabled veterans, invited Prazynski to take part in the opening day presentation with Bush.
Prazynski also works with the Washington-based Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors and hopes to raise donations for its activities by running in the Marine Corps Marathon in October.
"We're so grateful for his participation," said TAPS founder Bonnie Carroll. "It's an incredible opportunity to honor and help all those who are grieving the loss of a loved one."
Prazynski's last trip to Camp Lejeune — some 700 miles on a motorcycle — was another step.
"That's part of the healing process, to meet parents of other Marines and soldiers who died and just be able to talk to them," he said.
On his way home, Prazynski made a spur-of-the-moment 300-mile side trip.
"I went up to Arlington (National Cemetery) and visited Taylor's grave, and the other Cincinnati fallen heroes and the other men he served with. That's part, I guess, of how I deal with things," he said.
"I spent most of Saturday afternoon in Arlington. It's just peaceful; I could probably sit there for days, seriously."
Greenie
05-17-06, 02:14 PM
Here's a better approach to dealing with the loss of a son in the Long War...
_______________________________________________________________
Grief Compels Marine's Dad to Support War
By TERRY KINNEY
Associated Press Writer
FAIRFIELD, Ohio - A soft-spoken suburban real-estate broker, John Prazynski didn't consider himself political and never expected to become a public figure, much less a pro-war activist. But in the year since his son Taylor, a Marine, died in
Iraq, Prazynski has devoted much of his time to supporting the troops through fundraisers, two trips to Camp Lejeune, N.C., and interviews backing the war effort.
"I could easily have gone the other way," Prazynski said. He says his activism is a tribute to his son, trying to "make something positive happen out of something so negative. That's what Taylor would want us to do."
Marine Lance Cpl. Taylor Prazynski, 20, died May 9, 2005, of shrapnel wounds from a mortar shell that exploded near him during combat in Anbar Province. In his last phone calls, the fun-loving, popular man who had spent much of his senior year of high school helping special-needs students told his father he wanted to become a special education teacher.
Since his son's death, Prazynski, 43, has been interviewed repeatedly about the war while organizing a series of 5-kilometer runs and motorcycle rides to raise money for scholarships for students who attend his son's high school.
"I do this to keep Taylor's memory alive," Prazynski said.
On opening day of the baseball season in Cincinnati, he joined
President Bush and two wounded soldiers on the field in pregame ceremonies. Prazynski said he wanted to thank Bush for his support "and give him two thumbs up with his positive stance on security, military and veterans' issues."
The former Air Force tech school instructor shares the pain — but not the viewpoint — of Cindy Sheehan, who became a high-profile war protester after her son Casey was killed in Iraq in April 2004.
"She's grieving, as we are," Prazynski said. "She's chosen to direct her energies in a different direction. I say God bless her.
"My son died for the Constitution that allows her to do what she's doing. Her son died, and God bless him, too, to support and defend the Constitution that gives her the right to speak freely, and I'm all for that right.
"I just don't think that I clearly understand what her agenda is."
Sheehan, who helped found Gold Star Families for Peace, has called for the impeachment of Bush, whom she says duped America into invading Iraq.
Prazynski understands the constant hurt of losing a child, and why such a loss has turned some grieving parents against the war. Even now, he said, "Every day is painful."
The father searched the Internet and found several groups he felt he could support, but chose Impact Player Partners because it was based in nearby Cincinnati. The nonprofit group, an advocate for wounded and disabled veterans, invited Prazynski to take part in the opening day presentation with Bush.
Prazynski also works with the Washington-based Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors and hopes to raise donations for its activities by running in the Marine Corps Marathon in October.
"We're so grateful for his participation," said TAPS founder Bonnie Carroll. "It's an incredible opportunity to honor and help all those who are grieving the loss of a loved one."
Prazynski's last trip to Camp Lejeune — some 700 miles on a motorcycle — was another step.
"That's part of the healing process, to meet parents of other Marines and soldiers who died and just be able to talk to them," he said.
On his way home, Prazynski made a spur-of-the-moment 300-mile side trip.
"I went up to Arlington (National Cemetery) and visited Taylor's grave, and the other Cincinnati fallen heroes and the other men he served with. That's part, I guess, of how I deal with things," he said.
"I spent most of Saturday afternoon in Arlington. It's just peaceful; I could probably sit there for days, seriously."
"Better" approach or YOUR approach?
Greenie
05-17-06, 02:28 PM
Cindy WHO?
:rotfl
Sheehan
Sheehan
Doesn't ring a bell...
;LOL
Greenie
05-17-06, 02:53 PM
Doesn't ring a bell...
;LOL
Whatever.............
Bioscache2
05-17-06, 07:04 PM
how about genuine approach versus forced and fabricated approach? Also honoring versus grandstanding works as well.
Greenie
05-17-06, 09:53 PM
how about genuine approach versus forced and fabricated approach? Also honoring versus grandstanding works as well.
That works from YOUR point of view.
Bioscache2
05-17-06, 10:02 PM
no, its not that simple and a little more justified then just something off of the top of my head. Would you like me to explain?
DarkShark
05-18-06, 06:49 AM
"Better" approach or YOUR approach?
Well, yeah. He is HELPING others versus further polarizing people.:D
Greenie
05-18-06, 08:53 AM
no, its not that simple and a little more justified then just something off of the top of my head. Would you like me to explain?
realy not necessary. Your sig picture and the quote youve posted explain your position. We just disagree.
Greenie
05-18-06, 08:55 AM
Well, yeah. He is HELPING others versus further polarizing people.:D
Polarizing? There are plenty of people who agree with Cindy. Further more, there are plenty of people who do not agree with "him". Arent BOTH polarizing???
Bioscache2
05-18-06, 09:20 AM
realy not necessary. Your sig picture and the quote youve posted explain your position. We just disagree.
I was afraid you were gonna do it, look at one info you have about me and just assume here's another soldier who's convinced hes right so let me clarify. First I said genuine versus forced and fabricated. One piece that Cindy constantly omits in her 'quest' to see the president is that she already did and during that time thanked him for his support etc. No she may have always disliked the war but this didn't come up in her meeting with the President the first time. I don't know what changed her mind but suddenly she could use her son's death to give fuel to her movement and then she demanded a second meeting (the second part she frequently leaves off). Now I'm sure shes truly broken up about her son but to turn on a dime about how she received it and then use it to further a political statement (regardless of how you feel about the war, its a political statement) would greatly hint at being less then genuine.
As for honoring versus grandstanding well I already touched on it. The marine father's intentions were to help other soldiers, raise, money for them. Thats both constructive and not political in nature. Who would be polarizing over people helping injured soldiers or even soldiers in general. Now will the father be used to further the war cause.......probably and thats political, but thats not the father's original intent. Now Cindy, well she pulled the reversal I mentioned above and then that wasn't enough. She had to write and sell a book furthering that cause etc. In addition she constantly claims that this is what her son would have wanted except that her entire family disagrees and have distanced themselves as well as being outraged over her actions, indicating this is not what her son would have wanted. I can't tell for sure but I'd be more willing to go with the majority of the family here, who have nothing to gain from it; then the one person, who has something to gain and who changed their stance on it. Now, given that, then I think its absolutely horrid to use her son's sacrifice as a political jumping platform.
Those soldiers out there, they don't ask for much in return for what they do and they certainly deserve much more, but part of what they ask for is for people to not forget them and why they did it. Something I think Cindy forgot long ago. And maybe its the grief, which I'm sure is something I can't compare to yet, but that doesn't make it right.
So do we disagree on the war......probably, but what I wrote above has nothing to do with that.
The marine father's intentions were to help other soldiers, raise, money for them. Thats both constructive and not political in nature. Who would be polarizing over people helping injured soldiers or even soldiers in general.
Unfortunately, some moronic people consider soldiers to be disgusting and immoral, [and] anything that anyone else would do to further the soldier's well-being is also disgusting and immoral. It's incredible we have people like that today.
AdvancedAutoCC
05-18-06, 10:31 AM
Unfortunately, some moronic people consider soldiers to be disgusting and immoral. Anything that anyone else would do to further demean the soldier's well-being is also disgusting and immoral. It's incredible we have people like that today.
Is that what you meant? (I added the word demean to clarify) As a father of a soldier currently deployed, I have no time for people like that, Kop.
I think Jack Nicholson said it best:
"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
God Bless that Marine's father for doing what he feels honors his son's sacrifice.
Is that what you meant? (I added the word demean to clarify)
No, what I meant was what I wrote in regards to the viewpoint of those who consider soldiers to be a bad thing. That is, dislike by association, anything that anyone else would do to further the soldier's well-being is also disgusting and immoral, from the perspective of those who consider soldiers to be same.
Does that make more sense?
Greenie
05-18-06, 11:01 AM
I was afraid you were gonna do it, look at one info you have about me and just assume here's another soldier who's convinced hes right so let me clarify. First I said genuine versus forced and fabricated. One piece that Cindy constantly omits in her 'quest' to see the president is that she already did and during that time thanked him for his support etc. No she may have always disliked the war but this didn't come up in her meeting with the President the first time. I don't know what changed her mind but suddenly she could use her son's death to give fuel to her movement and then she demanded a second meeting (the second part she frequently leaves off). Now I'm sure shes truly broken up about her son but to turn on a dime about how she received it and then use it to further a political statement (regardless of how you feel about the war, its a political statement) would greatly hint at being less then genuine.
As for honoring versus grandstanding well I already touched on it. The marine father's intentions were to help other soldiers, raise, money for them. Thats both constructive and not political in nature. Who would be polarizing over people helping injured soldiers or even soldiers in general. Now will the father be used to further the war cause.......probably and thats political, but thats not the father's original intent. Now Cindy, well she pulled the reversal I mentioned above and then that wasn't enough. She had to write and sell a book furthering that cause etc. In addition she constantly claims that this is what her son would have wanted except that her entire family disagrees and have distanced themselves as well as being outraged over her actions, indicating this is not what her son would have wanted. I can't tell for sure but I'd be more willing to go with the majority of the family here, who have nothing to gain from it; then the one person, who has something to gain and who changed their stance on it. Now, given that, then I think its absolutely horrid to use her son's sacrifice as a political jumping platform.
Those soldiers out there, they don't ask for much in return for what they do and they certainly deserve much more, but part of what they ask for is for people to not forget them and why they did it. Something I think Cindy forgot long ago. And maybe its the grief, which I'm sure is something I can't compare to yet, but that doesn't make it right.
So do we disagree on the war......probably, but what I wrote above has nothing to do with that.
Some very lucid points. I do not agree with everything that she does. I have an Audi as well and you might find the political forum there quite interesting. Audiworld.com.
In the campaign for our most recent federal election, the Liberal Party (isn't it nice how Canadians name their parties by their inclination? :)) had a highly negative ad which they aired and then pulled, claiming it was released in error.
Here's the text of the ad....
Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities. Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada. We did not make this up.
Many Canadians were outraged at this.... Some were delighted.... Whatever...
-Mac
Is that what you meant? (I added the word demean to clarify) As a father of a soldier currently deployed, I have no time for people like that, Kop.
I think Jack Nicholson said it best:
"We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
God Bless that Marine's father for doing what he feels honors his son's sacrifice.
You know, whether right or wrong, Col. Jessup was too arrogant for his own good ~ but hey, that makes for good movies. In the context of this thread his comments are totally appropriate. Please thank your son for his service to our country and let him know there are many of us who truly appreciate his sacrafice.
Tom :pat
Bioscache2
05-18-06, 12:32 PM
Some very lucid points. I do not agree with everything that she does. I have an Audi as well and you might find the political forum there quite interesting. Audiworld.com.
Thanks but I find I have my hands full just trying to stay current on this forum
67HEAVEN
05-18-06, 04:08 PM
I have an Audi as well and you might find the political forum there quite interesting. Audiworld.com.
Close enough to be relevant. ;) http://www.computersupport.ca/Restoration/Volvo.jpg
JAGSFAN
05-18-06, 06:07 PM
I wish I could put an email someone sent me concerning Cindy. It is about how she hasnt even bothered to put a marker on her sons grave. Yet she has refused to let the military do it for free. She took the 250000 dolaars she got and went to Hawaii and bought a new car but not a headstone for her son to honor him. There is much more but dont remeber it all. I have friends with sons overseas. They all say they are happy to be there and would go back to continue to assist the people over there. They say they are sick of the media because it only shows the bad and doesnt show all the good our servicemen are doing.
goingballistic
05-19-06, 01:04 PM
I can't speak for other vets nor can I speak for active duty serving today and tomorrow, however I can speak for myself, after all I fought and earned that right as a USAF vet and no, I did not enjoy being called a "baby burner"!
I don't care if you support the political position or not, that's your right, you are entitled to that, after all many have fought and died to protect that right, it's the great thing about this country. I am also a naturalized citizen to the US and was so greatful for the country I now call home, that I decided to serve "my country" for 6 years in the US Air Force.
So, with that said, please keep one thing in mind. If you agree or disagree, that's your right and opinion, but please SUPPORT the TROOPS who are over there doing what they do, protecting our freedoms and rights, they are in no position to agree or disagree with the political agenda, they are paid to do a job, they volunteered to do that job and are williing to pay the ultimate price to accomplish the task they were employed to do. Unless you have served.........you will NEVER understand this! The TROOPS may agree or disagree with the political agenda behind all of this but you know what, if any one has the right to debate that and address it, it's THEM !
As a vet and a father of four, I am appalled by what Sheehan did and is doing. The article posted at the begining of this is a story about someone who turned his pain into something productive and something his son could be proud of. For that I am truly in his debt and grateful because I don't care how you slice it, that aspect of a parents life has to be very painful.
My son commissions in the Air Force next Friday at 12pm and may very well be in Iraq next year. He has made it a point to tell me that if I ever think the way Sheehan does or take any action that denegrates what he is doing, about to do or stands for, he will come back and beat me to death. I will honor his wishes, trust me, I will honor them, not only as a vet but more as a very proud father. I am saddened that my son has been placed in a position that he thought he had to bring that to my attention, not the fact that he thought I would do it, he wanted to make sure my family understood EXACTLY how he felt, so there is NO misunderstanding between my family members in the event of his death. I will support him and his "teams" in any way I can.
For the record, I do not agree with what Sheehan is doing but it is her right and I for one fought to protect that right.
If you have a beef with the war, take it up with the politicians, not the troops. The troops did NOTHING to get us there but it is THEM that will get us out of there.
Please, put politics aside......."SUPPORT THE TROOPS" so they can come home to their families and their loved ones, sooner rather than later and we can have no more articles from grieving parents.
He has made it a point to tell me that if I ever think the way Sheehan does or take any action that denegrates what he is doing, about to do or stands for, he will come back and beat me to death.
What a very nice post and what a fine son you have.
I salute you both! :pat
DarkShark
05-19-06, 05:22 PM
Unfortunately, some moronic people consider soldiers to be disgusting and immoral, [and] anything that anyone else would do to further the soldier's well-being is also disgusting and immoral. It's incredible we have people like that today.
Can I get an Amen?
I wish I could put an email someone sent me concerning Cindy. It is about how she hasnt even bothered to put a marker on her sons grave. Yet she has refused to let the military do it for free. She took the 250000 dolaars she got and went to Hawaii and bought a new car but not a headstone for her son to honor him. There is much more but dont remeber it all...
Why am I not surprised about that.
I don't care if you support the political position or not, that's your right, you are entitled to that, after all many have fought and died to protect that right, it's the great thing about this country. I am also a naturalized citizen to the US and was so greatful for the country I now call home, that I decided to serve "my country" for 6 years in the US Air Force.
So, with that said, please keep one thing in mind. If you agree or disagree, that's your right and opinion, but please SUPPORT the TROOPS who are over there doing what they do, protecting our freedoms and rights, they are in no position to agree or disagree with the political agenda, they are paid to do a job, they volunteered to do that job and are williing to pay the ultimate price to accomplish the task they were employed to do. Unless you have served.........you will NEVER understand this! The TROOPS may agree or disagree with the political agenda behind all of this but you know what, if any one has the right to debate that and address it, it's THEM !
As a vet and a father of four, I am appalled by what Sheehan did and is doing. The article posted at the begining of this is a story about someone who turned his pain into something productive and something his son could be proud of. For that I am truly in his debt and grateful because I don't care how you slice it, that aspect of a parents life has to be very painful.
Well put!
To up the ante...
Cindy Sheehan does not have "intellectual property rights" to all lost loved ones by proxy. She should speak for herself and not attempt to bear a cross of opposition for all others. She does not have a monopoly on grief. She has only a monopoly on her grief.
Was she elected in some sort of capacity to speak on behalf of our republic? No. Speaking of which, the founding fathers were terrified of people like her because she was the voice of the mob.
John Adams said-
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
Hence the wisdom of a republic and not a true democracy... which Casey defended (republic) and his mother supports (mob mentality).
Dr. Williams-
John Adams captured the essence of that difference when he said: "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." Nothing in our Constitution suggests that government is a grantor of rights. Instead, government is a protector of rights.
Rights that Casey defended. Casey defended her right to the protection of her rights. Sacrifices she quickly diminishes.
She does, as a citizen, have a social obligation to respect the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines because without them her right to disagree means squat. To do otherwise is intellectually disengenuous. To insult those who serve is to spit on those who defend her rights. This makes her unworthy of the sacrifices those who have gone before her have made by proxy. In order to be a good person, you must be worthy of the title.
Resepct goes both ways. To disagree in principle is understandable. To believe that you are a wonderful person as you trash those who defend your right shows how you don't "get it." Even if you feel you don't need your freedoms defended, to diminish another's sacrifice is an emotionally dishonest attempt at healing wounds through misguided anger.
Before Cindy Sheehan imersed herself into the politics of hipocracy, she should have thought about the other people who have lost loved ones and simply honored the memory of her son and not diminished the sacrifices of others.
To support her viewpoint as valid in principle is illogical. To defend her right to be a fool is honorable.
Then again, the fanatical left never has been supportive of honor, moral values, or the appreciation of the sacrifice of others. Modern liberal theory seems to revolve around the concept that government exists to grants rights.
lightingrod
06-15-06, 03:01 AM
What burns me the most are the “so called academics” like Ward Churchill who seem to be siding with the Radical Muslim Terrorist. They are arrogant but oh so foolish to think these throw-backs to the 8-9th century (in fact they are much worse) will embrace them for there wisdom and fairness for siding with them! The fact is, they as “academics” would be at the front of the line at chop-chop square! I think what would really blow their minds is the fact that many Muslim would tolerate President Bush as a man of the book, a man of faith and see them as godless trash!
With them it's anything, so long as it's anti-american!
Al
Ms Speed Freak
06-15-06, 07:36 AM
Polarizing? There are plenty of people who agree with Cindy. Further more, there are plenty of people who do not agree with "him". Arent BOTH polarizing???
I believe the people who agree with Cindy and those who do not agree with "him" are one in the same - the very ones who seem to like to stir up dissension, and seem to have little respect for our men and women who serve in the armed forces.
hoosierdaddy
06-24-06, 07:35 PM
Just an awesome attitude from someone that feels the pain, but still greatful for the purpose and understands the reasons:
"She's grieving, as we are," Prazynski said. "She's chosen to direct her energies in a different direction. I say God bless her.
"My son died for the Constitution that allows her to do what she's doing. Her son died, and God bless him, too, to support and defend the Constitution that gives her the right to speak freely, and I'm all for that right.
"I just don't think that I clearly understand what her agenda is."
Sheehan, who helped found Gold Star Families for Peace, has called for the impeachment of Bush, whom she says duped America into invading Iraq
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