Frame Restoration

[61 Silver]

Frame restoration: When restoring the frame on a Corvette, what would be the best process for treating the interior of the frame. It is my understanding that many frames rust from the inside out.

[Derster]

I read somewhere that corvette club members were spraying oil (with an engine degreasing wand that would extend into the frame rails) and were pleased with the results. Oil would drip for a time but they believed it was worth it. I would think that for highly detailed under-carridges it may not be to good to have oil oozing out of every seam,but for daily drivers hmmmm. My own thinking would be the spray wax mist treatment commonly used for unibodys. Mearly my 2cts.

[61 Silver]

Thanks! I believe they make a special rust prohibitor that can be sprayed inside the frame and I was wondering if anyone has used this or other products.

Again, Thanks!

[ssvett]

Here is a little that I have heard: The best way to strip a frame is by "dip striping" it. The problem is, if you ever had anything dip striped, they tell you to get primer (or some rust treatment) on it as soon as possible. The problem lies in, how do you make sure you got all the little "Nooks and Crannies". Being in the "telephony" bussiness (thats Telephone Man to you Bud) I notice that, back in the old days, when working with open wire (no insulation) they would get a "corosion" on them from the elements in the air. This would create an isulation and even if the wires were touching each other as long as the "corosion" was not rubbed off, no problems would result. Therefore, here is my theory: Blast the outside, including any inside areas you can, prime it with good automotive primer, and paint it. Don't worry about the inside. Do get as much of the dirt and mud out of the inside that you can but, I fear that removeing the inner rust with the possibility of not being able to completly recoat it may be more harmful then just leaveing it........Now, if the frame is sooooo pitted on the outside, that the inside, is the outside, a new frame may be needed............. Besides, I'm not sure that the inside of the older frames ever had anything on them, even when new..................Steve

[Tom Bryant]

I thought original frames were submerged but I could be wrong.

Tom

[ssvett]

Tom, I was thinking that also however, I have never seen any sign of paint on the inside of a frame. Even when the original paint is still fairly good on the outside, rust is always on the inside..........I dunno.......It could be too, that the inside, not being as airy, just rusts faster????????Steve

[Tom Bryant]

From Joe Lucia on the NCRS Technical Discussion Board:


No, they were not actually dipped. They were coated with the asphaltic paint
in a recirculating "bath" at the A.O. Smith frame manufacturing plants in
Milwaukee, WI and southern Illinois. In this process, as silly as it sounds,
two men with hip boots stood in the rather shallow bath and used hoses to
liberally apply the coating to the frame. The unused coating (which is what
the shallow bath was comprised of) was returned via a circulating pump to the
hoses and made-up, as necessary. Why a simple dip process was not used is
totally beyond me.

In any event, the characteristics of application of the coating which you
described (i.e. some internal coverage, etc.) was just about the same as it
would have been if the frames had been dipped. So, you can proceed with
restoration on that basis.

Also, if you were not aware, this original coating was NOT a paint. It was
just an asphaltic coating. Unlike paint, it does not cure by polymerization;
it simply dries via evaporation of the solvent. So, it can be re-dissolved and
"wiped off" with a compatible solvent. Although the asphaltic coating remains
available, for driven cars, I recommend restoration with a paint which
produces a finish that appears like the asphaltic coating.

From John Hinckley also on the NCRS Tech Disc. Board:

I don't know about the Milwaukee process (C1's and C3's), but I witnessed the Granite City process for C2's several times; the frame was hung by chains from an overhead conveyor and was sprayed. If there was any treatment in the closed box sections, I didn't see it.


Thanks Joe and John
Tom

[Jack]

Tom:
Wow ... wonder if same A.O. Smith that today manufactures home water heaters? There's an A.O. Smith water heater plant located about 30 miles from me ... near town of McBee SC. Also, wonder if A.O. Smith frame plants at IL / WI are still in production of auto frames? There is a DANA chassis plant at Lugoff SC site ... I toured it about 3 years ago ... at that time they manufactured only heavy truck chassis at Lugoff.
JACK:gap

[Tom Bryant]

I have an A. O. Smith water heater. Fastest one I ever had. I think it is the same company...obviously a different division.

Tom

[Tom Bryant]

After re-reading this thread it seems that we missed the point of how to protect the inside of a frame. There are companys around, like Ready Strip, that have tanks big enough to submerge the frame in a paint removing bath and then a rust removing solution. I have had steel fenders done before and they are amazingly clean when done.

I have read articles on restoring about some places that have the resources to submerge the finished product in a zinc chromate primer tank. This would get everything inside and out coated. You would have to check Hemmings Motor News advitisers and bigger city yellow pages to find a source for this service.

I would then check with Ziebart or equivilent to see if they could reach into the the side rails with long wands or flexible wands to thoroughly coat the inside of the rails. Or at least the common rust areas. I would use a non-hardening type of rust proofing.

Just some thoughts. You probably wouldn't have to get this extreme for a car that is never going to see bad weather or a damp storage garage again.

Another thought. With the above discribed method of coating the frames at the frame factory it is obvious that some internal areas could not be reached. This is more than likely why we are experiencing frame rustout from the inside out today.

One more thought. If you have a Corvette that may have seen use in a salt enviroment (seaside or lived in the rust belt) that salt is probably in there working right now. One of us should check into methods of applying a rust inhibitor to a frame on an assembled car.

Tom

[61 Silver]

I have located a rust stopping product called Defender II from State Industrial Products Corp. I call the company and was faxed information on their prouduct. The Chemical is reported to stop rust and react with rust to create a stable metal-organic compound. The product can be painted over, or sprayed inside the frame and left as is. It is advertized to put down a permanent rust sheild. I ask if this would be a good product to use for Corvettes frames and they stated yes. Has anyone heard of or used this product?

[Tom Bryant]

Sounds promising.

[jerrys96lt4]

61silver , I havent used that brand but I have used one made by the SEM company Called RUST MORT. It worked really well. I did a boxed 57 BelAir frame about 3 years ago. The out side was sanded and sprayed metallic silver base clear and it still looks great. as long as the product has some self etching agents sounds like a winner.

[jerrys96lt4]

Thanks Keith
Ray heres one Ken suggested a while back
http://www.por15.com/ hope it 'll help

[61 Silver]

Thanks!

Was the Rust Mort product that you used a water base product?

[jerrys96lt4]

Ray I dont believe so . I'll check it out tomorrow at work

[jerrys96lt4]

Ray , did some telephone tag today with our sem rep. Rust mort is water based. It has acid alcohol zinc and water . It works great but the water disturbs me . I think im going to try something different.

[Tom Bryant]

Almost all new US built cars are painted with water borne paints today. It should be alright. At least you could apply it at home without too much oder or cleanup problems. Do they recommend a fresh air resperator to spray It?

Tom

[jerrys96lt4]

Tom your right about the water borne paints . But the acid in these converters is pretty stout. In the paintshop if we leave it on the concrete it will start to break down the first layer or two . As a general rule i like to wet the floor first. And rinse it quickly. It works great But it is hazardous.

[61 Silver]

Hi! jerrys96lt4

What type of rust preventive are you using.

Thanks, Ray

[jerrys96lt4]

Ray We are using the rust mort right now . Ive used it for about ten years. with no problems. But I cant get over the fact that its a water based product. Im searching for a replacement if I come with somthing Ill pass it on

[Velo]

As we are talking about restoration what is this about a Bel Air frame painted silver clear coat?
I have nevr seen a restored frame that color.
Im I missing something here.
Hey it might look better than black. LOL

[61 Silver]

Velo!
The information I was looking for is a product that could be sprayed into any framing opening to stop the rust on the inside of the frame. It is my understanding that some frames rust from the inside to the outside. The frame traps dirt and salt water inside the frame and the dirt will continually retain moisture. I was hoping to preasure wash where possible, let dry and then apply a protective coating. I believe we now have some products to research.

Thanks for all the positive responces!!

Ray

[WayneC]

When I did my frame, I had it chemically dipped. After painting the outside, I used an inexpensive rustproofing spray gun I purchased from J.C. Whitney (also available from Eastwood) with some 3M (I believe) rustroofing to spray inside the frame (heavy dark liquid that semi-dries to a firm rubbery consistency, similar to what Ziebart and other rustproofing processes use) . I taped off all the holes except the one I was using for access at any given time, inserting the wands and spray nozzles that came with the gun. I could gauge the effective coverage of my coating pretty well by the coverage on the pieces of tape I removed from the various holes. Can't tell you how long it lasts, but my guess is that it should be very effective for many years.

[Velo]

Originally posted by WayneC
When I did my frame, I had it chemically dipped. After painting the outside, I used an inexpensive rustproofing spray gun I purchased from J.C. Whitney (also available from Eastwood) with some 3M (I believe) rustroofing to spray inside the frame (heavy dark liquid that semi-dries to a firm rubbery consistency, similar to what Ziebart and other rustproofing processes use) . I taped off all the holes except the one I was using for access at any given time, inserting the wands and spray nozzles that came with the gun. I could gauge the effective coverage of my coating pretty well by the coverage on the pieces of tape I removed from the various holes. Can't tell you how long it lasts, but my guess is that it should be very effective for many years.
Yes that seems to me the proper way to do it.
I like the manner which you employed to check the thickness of the spray inside the frame.
My "64 and '65 did not have any problem in that area and I sold them before any rust developed but I know the mid year Corvettes were prone to rust and rot in that small area of the frame just in front of the rear wheels. Happy motoring. Jake H.

[jerrys96lt4]

Ray I talked to a SEM chemist today , He says that all the rust converters that they have tested have water to help with the high acid content, he said that the alcoholhelps evaporate the water before it can cause any problems.

Velo, on the 57 belair frame it started as restoration but soon turned into show car . I told the owner we should paint the frame somthing other than black The rest of the car is tri coat candy apple red. I thought the black frame would have looked like a spraybomb resto
jerry

[Velo]

Jerry.Thankyou for the explanation on the Bel-Air frame. I was curious why a restored car would have a silver clearcoat frame.
Myself anything other than as it left the factory is not my cup of tea however with all the run of the mill cars which IMHO all look the same I can see why someone wants to built something that looks a bit different.
Having owned BMW,Mercedes-Benz, Audi's etc.etc.
I still think North American cars are the best but sometimes the quality control leaves something to be desired.
Keep on driving. Greetings from the land of the chill.

[Tom Bryant]

JohnZ used PPG DP-90 medium gloss epoxy primer flattened about 20% on his '57 Corvette frame and reports that "it's an excellent compromise between correct appearance and modern durability; still looks like it did five years ago, and the usual road grime and dirt, rain splash, etc. just falls off when I hit it with a hose and it's clean again."

Thanks for the great info John.

Tom

[moxy]

I use a product that I bring in from the United Stated called Rust Defender, come in gallon cans, white and yellow label. has a tan finnish when dry and is a polyester based sealer primer. It is catylized with MEK just like fibreglass resin. It seals well, easily sands and also works well on bare metal. If anyone need further info email me I will be glad to pass on the info.

P.S. I have a frame problem, mine has been repaired several times and I want to replace it, anyone that can help, please let me know

Bill

[Big Fish]

Hey Bill, I've heard that 68 had a lot of problems with the frames being torqued apart. seems like they corrected the problem in 69, but I also believe the frames for 68 only fit 68. You might want to contact vette products of Michigan to ask if their replacement frames have been upgraded to handle the power. vetteproducts@voyager.net I don't have any first hand experience with them, but they were the only ones I found offering new frames. Hope this helps

Steve :)