Question for John Z

61 Silver · 04-26-05, 08:10 PM

Hi! John Z

John I am in need of frame parts for the 63-restoration project. I believe that I have read previous post where you recommended Vette Products of Michigan as a supplier of frames and frame parts. Do I have the correct company? I have just read some negative comments on their quality on another site, but I hold you opinion in high regards.

As always, Thanks for your help!

Ray

JohnZ · 04-27-05, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61 Silver

Hi! John Z

John I am in need of frame parts for the 63-restoration project. I believe that I have read previous post where you recommended Vette Products of Michigan as a supplier of frames and frame parts. Do I have the correct company? I have just read some negative comments on their quality on another site, but I hold you opinion in high regards.

As always, Thanks for your help!

Ray

Ray, Vette Products of Michigan (Neil Porter) has the original GM stamping dies and welding jigs for '53-'82 Corvette frames, and he supplies ALL the repair and replacement sections all the vendors advertise. I haven't seen the C2 reproduction frame, but I HAVE seen the C1 repro frames, and they're indistinguishable from the originals.

61 Silver · 04-27-05, 07:10 PM

Thanks John

Ray

stepinwolf · 04-27-05, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZ

Ray, Vette Products of Michigan (Neil Porter) has the original GM stamping dies and welding jigs for '53-'82 Corvette frames, and he supplies ALL the repair and replacement sections all the vendors advertise. I haven't seen the C2 reproduction frame, but I HAVE seen the C1 repro frames, and they're indistinguishable from the originals.

JohnZ,

I have some vendor spaces at the Corvette show in Carlisle on I 101-103 and they are only two spaces over from Vette Products of Michigan. For the past couple of years they have had a C2 frame sitting upright on a jig in front of their vendor space, and I have to admit that after having been able to, as we say " get up close and personal " it is not something I would recommend for anyone contemplating a correct restoration.

It's quite possible that they might have the original dies, that, I have no way of knowing, but when looking at it closely, there are a lot of things that don't look quite right. The fitment is not well done, the welds are so,so, the metal used for the stampings look as though it is slightly thinner then the originals, and even the finish on it leaves a lot to be desired. The shiny black paint that they have applied, has been done sloppily, and is as shiny as the gloss black paint we see from " Imron "

I most certainly do not wish to bad-mouth his product, but when one thinks of a correct, new, replacement frame, I'm thinking that a lot of people would be expecting something different that what I have seen in the past.

I don't wish to imply that his frame is not usable, but personally the only place I would use one of them is under a " driver " that would see everyday use. If anybody has his car judged using this frame, I can guarantee it would not go un-noticed.

As far as frame replacement parts, or sections, the best supplier I have seen so far is " Caledonia Classic Cars " 888-245-5224 and I might be wrong, but I doubt very much if his products are supplied by Vette Products of Michigan.

JohnZ, in closing I'm sorry if this response sounds a little confrontational, it certainly was not my intention. I have too much respect for you, and your extensive knowledge to contradict your statements, but then, I to have seen a lot of cars, frames, etc. over time, and honestly, this is the way I see his product. If ever you were to be at the show, it would be a pleasure for me to have you stop by so that we could go over and compare notes.

Just my humble opinion
Bob

JohnZ · 04-28-05, 05:07 PM

Bob, no problem - as I said, I haven't seen Neil's C2 frame - it apparently isn't as good as the C1 frame, which is a much simpler design. Caledonia does a great deal of frame work and frame repair/restoration, and I'm sure they make their own repair sections too.

I spent a lot of time in the A.O. Smith - Granite City, Illinois plant in the mid-60's where they made the C2 Corvette frames, and it's a very complex and difficult process; that plant was best described as "medieval" - it's a miracle that any of those frames were close to correct, in spite of all the tooling involved.

67HEAVEN · 04-28-05, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZ

I spent a lot of time in the A.O. Smith - Granite City, Illinois plant in the mid-60's where they made the C2 Corvette frames, and it's a very complex and difficult process; that plant was best described as "medieval" - it's a miracle that any of those frames were close to correct, in spite of all the tooling involved.

That's the word that came to mind when I toured the St. Louis Plant in 1978....medieval.

61 Silver · 05-06-05, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZ

Bob, no problem - as I said, I haven't seen Neil's C2 frame - it apparently isn't as good as the C1 frame, which is a much simpler design. Caledonia does a great deal of frame work and frame repair/restoration, and I'm sure they make their own repair sections too.

I spent a lot of time in the A.O. Smith - Granite City, Illinois plant in the mid-60's where they made the C2 Corvette frames, and it's a very complex and difficult process; that plant was best described as "medieval" - it's a miracle that any of those frames were close to correct, in spite of all the tooling involved.

John Z,

Just got off the phone with Neal from Vette Products of Michigan and talked with him in reference to his C-2 frames. He said they were made using the original equipment as when AO Smith made the frames. They purchased 16 truckloads of the original frame making equipment used to build the C-1 and C-2 frames. He claims that one of his frames was a top awarded NCRS car. John would you know how one would secure a stamp for stamping a frame? I am going to need a replacement frame and would like to have it correct.

Thanks for the information!

Ray

Dave65 · 05-06-05, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepinwolf

As far as frame replacement parts, or sections, the best supplier I have seen so far is " Caledonia Classic Cars " 888-245-5224 and I might be wrong, but I doubt very much if his products are supplied by Vette Products of Michigan.Bob

I have been to Caledonia's shop and discussed the rebuild of my frame with Gary Crumb, the owner. He does use Neil's parts (Vette Products of Michigan) in his work. Neil is the only manufacturer of the parts for the area forward of the where side rails turn in. According to Gary he manufacturers the side rails for both his work and also supplies Neil.

Gary did rebuild my frame - he has a "massive" jig (he is a former GM tool and die maker), but I was very close to getting Neil's frame because it was very expensive.

Dave

JohnZ · 05-07-05, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 61 Silver

John Z,

Just got off the phone with Neal from Vette Products of Michigan and talked with him in reference to his C-2 frames. He said they were made using the original equipment as when AO Smith made the frames. They purchased 16 truckloads of the original frame making equipment used to build the C-1 and C-2 frames. He claims that one of his frames was a top awarded NCRS car. John would you know how one would secure a stamp for stamping a frame? I am going to need a replacement frame and would like to have it correct.

Thanks for the information!

Ray

Ray, the original VIN derivative stamping on the frame looked like the photo below - the characters are about 5/16" tall. Just get a set of stamps and apply the number; it can't be seen without removing the left rear wheel and using a mirror, and it isn't judged. It's just forward of the #4 body mount bracket, and stamped again just forward of the #3 body mount bracket.

The plant used this air-operated indexing tool to stamp the numbers:

And when the tool broke down, they used the old tried-and-true method:

61 Silver · 05-07-05, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZ

Ray, the original VIN derivative stamping on the frame looked like the photo below - the characters are about 5/16" tall. Just get a set of stamps and apply the number; it can't be seen without removing the left rear wheel and using a mirror, and it isn't judged. It's just forward of the #4 body mount bracket, and stamped again just forward of the #3 body mount bracket.

The plant used this air-operated indexing tool to stamp the numbers:

And when the tool broke down, they used the old tried-and-true method:

WOW!

John great production pictures and information about applying the frame numbers worthy of another view so I will post with your quote.

Thanks for all the help!

Ray