Z06 Roadster

Remo · 12-30-03, 02:40 PM

The subject of a Z06 convertible has been discussed many times on this site and Lord knows I've started a few. Nothing would be sweeter than a Z06 with a drop top. When I bought my C5 I had to make that decision. I felt that GM was forcing me to make a compromise.

Last summer I went to "Corvettes at Carlisle" where GM had a tent showing their 2004 Vettes. I got a chance to pose the question about a Z06 convertible to Dave Hill. His answer was just what you might expect. "We'll stick with the FRC layout because it offers the structural integrity required for the torque of the LS6". Beyond that he said the same would hold true for the 2006 C6 Z06.

After the Q&A was finsihed he walked over to where I was standing and asked if I was satisfied with his answer. I told him I appreciated his position but could he explain why GM built so many 400 - 500 HP convertibles in the 60's and early 70? He said he was glad I didn't ask that question. Now what do think he ment by that?

Remo

Gorgon · 12-30-03, 02:46 PM

He meant that he wouldn't have had an answer for you and he would have been put on the spot.

I'm looking at the C6 vert as the convertible Z06 that was missing for the C5, 400HP and a drop top. Good enough for me.

Leon

Double D · 12-30-03, 03:19 PM

I understand the structural rigidity problems associated with the verts, but I don't understand why they can't produce the regular coupe body with the targa top in the Z06

Last Ride · 12-31-03, 12:49 AM

The C5 was built as a convertible first, so structural rigidity is just BS. I would bet that the C6 would be even better from a rigidity standpoint. By the way, if the FRC is needed to "handle the torque", then why is the base C6 over 400 hp? Will the cars be falling apart on the road? Not hardly! While I think Hill's answer was a diplomatic one, it was not necessarily true. I think he said, "Glad you didn't ask me that one," because then he might have had to say, "Really it's just a marketing thing because the FRC was not selling well as a "base" Corvette. There's my $.02...

Remo · 12-31-03, 07:37 AM

Bryan,

You and I are in 100% agreement. The FRC was not meeting its sales targets so someone in Marketing had to come up with another method to pump up the volume. The Z06 idea did the job and helped GM meet their corporate goals as well as their vendor obligations. Unfortunately their goals and customers desires are very different - now and into the forseeable future. You bet he was glad I didn't ask the question.

Remo

Eric · 12-31-03, 08:46 AM

I agree with Bryan and Remo, rigidity is a cop out. The FRC was a slow sell but part of that was because they changed their marketing stategy in the middle of the game. Back when the C5 debuted we were primised a ragtop a year later followed by an "affordable Vette" with less features and a hardtop. It was to be somewhat of an entry-level Vette costing much less than the coupe. Well when C5 sales took off like a shot, there was no need to stimulate sales with a cheap Vette so the FRC got loaded up like every other Vette and low and behold, most people didn't want to be closed in for nearly $50k. The Z06 was already in development so it just fit. JMHO.

- Eric

Gorgon · 12-31-03, 09:41 AM

I'm not totally in agreement with some of these arguements. The FRC started at less then $39k in 99, the cheapes C5 which included $1175 woth of options, 6-speed and Z51, as standard equipment. Right there you are $1570 cheaper than the base coupe. Even with the $3000 optional magnesium wheels you couldn't option this thing close to $50k.

The 500hp convertibles of the past do NOT handle on the track like today's Corvette. Straight line performance was as different story. If I was to make the decision, it would have been for the FRC to get the go for the performance model. While the vert and coupe are rigid structures, I would assume that the FRC would pull slightly better skid pad and slalom numbers and that would be where I would place the components for improvement to take on the world. There is some pretty stiff competition out there, so let's give it all we have.

I can't speak on the business end of things, but I assume that with the FRC sales dropping that something needed to be done. I don't have any insight into whether GM was loosing money on the design, but since C5 sales have been steady for every C5 model year I would assume that if the hardtop died off they would have been fine.

I really enjoy the FRC model. It took some time to grow on me, as did the C5 in general, but I really love this car.

Leon

vettepilot · 12-31-03, 10:16 AM

It's also not quite fair to compare past 400 - 500 hp figures to todays HP ratings. The 405 net Hp of today equates to about 486 gross HP as engines were rated back "in the day". To be sure those big blocks were producing massive mounts of TQ and HP, but they were holed up in a poor chassis design, (by today's standards) and those skinny bias ply tires had about 1/3rd the road surface contact as todays Z06 rear meats.
By the way, the FRC body style does have a slightly more rigid structure than the coupe and vert. This is because the FRC has both of the structural enhancements of the coupe (the halo frame work) and the Vert, (the cross member just in front of the trunk). This combination makes the FRC a little more rigid than either of the other two models.
The basic premise of the Z06 was to make a track ready Corvette that was lighter and more rigid than either the coupe or
vert. They hit the mark quite well I think.
However, I do agree that they could have offered the LS6 in the other two models, and market them differently than the Z06. I'm certain it would have sold very well.

vettepilot

Remo · 12-31-03, 10:45 AM

Leon, Stan,

Thanks for the input and of course you're right about the history of the current Z06 and how it evolved. Just the same there were some tactical decisions made based on unattainable sales targets. And you are both correct about the camparisons between today and yesterdays preformance measurements. But - wouldn't be nice to have it all.

My plan is to trade in the 01 vert for a 2006 Z06. I'll miss the top down driving but up here there's not that many days (opps - there's that compromise again).

What the heck - it's winter up here and I'm grouchy as usual. I'll bet you guys are driving those vettes every day. Hope you two have a safe and secure 2004.

Remo

Gorgon · 12-31-03, 10:54 AM

Thanks Remo, and you the same.

I can also see why you would be interested in the Z06. The C6 vert will have a power top option and I'd hate to see the same thing happen to your new C6 vert as happened to the XLR you worked at Bowling Green.

Yes, the weather has been good here. Mid-70's and perfect for top down driving. But the vert is currently under the weather with a corroded battery cable and a dead battery.

New cable on its way and should be here soon and hopefully she'll be good as new.

So, to cheer me up the wife has been letting me drive the FRC.

Wow, this thing's so much faster than the C4.

Leon

vettepilot · 12-31-03, 11:01 AM

REMO,
Thank you, and you have a safe and happy 2004 yourself.
Well it's chilly this morning, we had a light frost overnight but should be nicer as the day progresses.
I sure don't miss those snowy weeks up north when it comes to driving around, but do miss the beauty of a fresh snow covered field and the quiet serenity it brings. I grew up in New England, (Rhode Island to be exact) and my sister now lives near Conway, New Hampshire and often reports, via e-mail, of the deep snow drifts off their porch. While I'm golfing for my winter exercise, she does x-country skiing, and snow shoes out to visit the neighbors.
Meanwhile my broither-in-law plows many driveways to keep busy. He has a yard full of life size "Tonka Toys" to play with year round.

vettepilot

Last Ride · 12-31-03, 11:17 AM

The thing is, as a guy in my early 20's, I was actually pulling for the FRC to be a stripped down "Billy Bob" car! My wife doesn't really like the open top feeling (it messes up her hair, can you imagine that

), so the FRC was what we were going to look at. I was even going to sell the '78! In the end, I chickened out, and now we will just have to wait a few years before we can park a second one in our garage, lol.

Bryan

CeeFive · 12-31-03, 11:40 AM

I definitely see a C6 in my future. Still have my fingers crossed on an open air Z car. It's not too late to change their minds or offer other options. My order is down the minute I see anything like that on the C6. The option still remains on cutting the roof if need be, but I really want the "factory" option.

Eric · 12-31-03, 12:41 PM

I'm sure if GM doesn't do it, Caravagio will be more than happy to oblige once again. - Eric

Mac · 12-31-03, 02:42 PM

I thought the idea behind the FRC was weight savings in the birdcage as less need for the heavier reinforcing required for the vert or even the t-top to achieve the structural integrity desired. Weight has always been as issue with Vettes, so anything which reduces weight can't be a bad thing.

Excuse my lack-o-knowledge since I'm into the classics rather then the newer stuff so don't beat me up too bad.