Body Frame removal....???

69MyWay · 09-05-03, 06:32 PM

I have been asked to help a friend with a 64 coupe to repair/replace the rusty bird cage/inner body frame on her car.

I have done this a couple of times on the 3rd gen Vettes. Her car has extensive rust in the channel that runs around the upper door frame, lower windshield frame...and no doubt much hidden in other areas.

Question is....how is this done?

Do I remove the front clip, doors, cut off the firewall, seperate the floor and rockers, then cut some portion of the roof to expell the inner metal structure?

Thanks!

Chris

magicv8 · 09-19-03, 08:47 AM

I searched the web for the Yankee Lady instructions. They are here http://www.yl-gazette.com/tech/mackay.htm

67HEAVEN · 09-19-03, 11:45 AM

Magic,

Good link but I think Chris is looking for info on attacking a rusty birdcage.

I think Ron Devries may have done some birdcage repairs on a midyear.....for sure on 'C3's. Ron lives near Mac 73 in British Columbia, and Mac has his contact info. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...threadid=35943

Another source of advice will be Patrick - PJ67. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...fo&userid=7033

67HEAVEN · 09-19-03, 12:23 PM

Here's a look at the C2 coupe birdcage.

69MyWay · 09-19-03, 07:51 PM

Magic, that link you provided is very comprehensive on a body removal.

However, 67 nailed it.

I am looking at removing that inner body "bird cage" from a 64, having it welded and repaired, then putting it back in.

The part that has me stumped is how the midyear has fiberglass skin over the outer windshield frame.

That picture makes me think I could remove the front clip, remove the doors, cut the firewall off, cut the rockers off, cut the rear inner door jams out, the chisel the upper rear bird cage from from the roof. I still don't know about the windshield area. I assume I would cut the skin off????

After that, it looks like if I pry the floor up I could drop the frame out under the roof and forward.

Let me see what those other fellows you linked think.

69MyWay · 09-19-03, 07:53 PM

PJ67 has his email and private messaging options turned off, so I can't reach him. I did send a note to Mac about Ron.

67HEAVEN · 09-19-03, 08:44 PM

Chris,

I eMailed him with a link to this thread.

PTighe · 09-20-03, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69MyWay
PJ67 has his email and private messaging options turned off, so I can't reach him. I did send a note to Mac about Ron.

'67 Heaven just emailed this to me. If I understand your question correctly, I completely chiseled off the entire front clip of my '67 in order to install a new PM clip. There is a piece of fiberglass called a "whalebone" which is riveted to the birdcage, and then the front clip is bonded to that. By the time I had chiseled through the bonding cement to separate the clip from the bone, the bone was toast. I bought a new one from Sermersheim's and in the picture below you can see the new one with the rivets in place before I installed it.

I would think to make birdcage repairs under this "bone", it would have to have the rivets drilled out; in order to do that though, the clip would have to come off. I can't think of any other way to do it. I did manage to chisel the whole front end off in one piece though, and sold it, so it's not impossible. The pictures below may be of some help. Good Luck. Patrick

69MyWay · 09-20-03, 01:35 PM

Thank you!

Yes, we are getting closer now.

I want to go to the next extreme and extract the entire cage from the car.

From you pics, I see you chiseled off the fiberglass cover that goes around the windshield...is this right?

PTighe · 09-20-03, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69MyWay
Thank you!

Yes, we are getting closer now.

I want to go to the next extreme and extract the entire cage from the car.

From you pics, I see you chiseled off the fiberglass cover that goes around the windshield...is this right?

Yes, you are right, you can see the bare birdcage on the right side of the picture. I believe that the "bone" had some weather sealant applied to the underside before it was riveted on at the factory. I drilled out the rivets and removed what was left of the bone (most of it was still attached to the front clip) and sanded down the birdcage and cleaned it up. It had some very light rust, which I sprayed with "Loctite End Rust" which is a rust neutralizer.

Again in the picture, the whalebone from Jim Sermersheim is "factory correct" meaning that it also bonded to the firewall. I doubt if you want to mess with the firewall. In my case, I cut off the vertical section of the bone, so only the horizontal section remained with the predrilled holes for the rivets. Before riveting, I applied a coat of silicone weather sealer to the down side of the bone. Both the Cut and Uncut pieces are shown on the picture. Hope this helps. Patrick

Mac · 09-21-03, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69MyWay
PJ67 has his email and private messaging options turned off, so I can't reach him. I did send a note to Mac about Ron.

It appears PJ67 answered most of your questions. To my knowledge, the midyears Ron D worked on did not require extensive birdcage repairs. I know he did lower birdcage repair on my car but nothing around the windshield.

69MyWay, Ron ran a Vette-only resto shop for a while but unfortunately his business venture was unsuccessful. The last Vette question I asked Ron (looking for parts) he basically said he's not in the game anymore. Too bad since he is very knowledgeable and a good craftsman. If you still want me to contact Ron, let me know.

If you're still seeking assistance, I have the email address for another restorer of note, the notorious Jerry Clark of Florida. He could likely point you in the right direction.

69MyWay · 09-21-03, 05:51 AM

Hey Mac, I will take all the help I can get.

PJ's pics and description have already showed me something I would not have expected. The whale bone is much different than what you find in a C3. That upper bow riveted to the cowl/lower windshield is the big departure. In a C3, the firewall is bonded and riveted right right through the fiberglass firewall into the lower windshield birdframe with no other parts.

If her car was a convertible I would not feel as lost. Being that it is a coupe, I have to contend with leaving the roof intact, and slipping the entire cage out from under it.

She has taken the car to dozens of shops. Nobody will touch it. They want to patch it from what they can see in the upper door jam and under the windshield. That has already been done once before, and it is rusting through again.

She has owned the car since she was 16, and is not about to part with it under any circumstances.

She wants to redo the frame herself. I told her I would split the body off the frame, cut the front clip, and start the bird cage. Meanwhile, she can be working on detailing the frame. There is no rust there that I can see.

We just did that with this 71 project I worked on, and pulled it off in two months, including me and the owner working our regular full time jobs. I imagine the 64 will take a bit longer because it is unchartered waters for me.

Everything else is new for the car, including all new a/c stuff, interior, chrome, trim, etc.

Mac · 09-26-03, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69MyWay
Hey Mac, I will take all the help I can get.

Hey, Chris... you have mail.

When I presented your queries to Jerry Clark, he suggested finding a 64 project car with a good birdcage and use the frame & everything else from your original owner's car. I'm guess that's not an option, tho....

Anyway, Jerry is a Florida resident like yourself, so maybe you guys can figure this out between you.

69MyWay · 09-26-03, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mac 73
Hey, Chris... you have mail.

When I presented your queries to Jerry Clark, he suggested finding a 64 project car with a good birdcage and use the frame & everything else from your original owner's car. I'm guess that's not an option, tho....

Anyway, Jerry is a Florida resident like yourself, so maybe you guys can figure this out between you.

Thanks!!!!

We are going to lick this thing one way or another...I have confidence!

You know, nobody supported my decision to save Killer when I found the rust lurking below. I mean...NOBODY! However, we have sparked a wave of interest in that procedure. I answer regular questions via email and phone from people all over the world that are not going that extra step after seeing it can be done. We have since completed two other bird cage removals. It is a very hard job...but the results are stunning and long lasting.

Jerry sounds like a great guy. I am really looking foward to chatting with him. I just dropped him a note.

If all goes well, we will launch this project early next year. By then I should have my head fairly clear about how I want to tackle it...and there will be PLENTY of pictures.

Mac · 09-28-03, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 69MyWay
Jerry sounds like a great guy. I am really looking foward to chatting with him. I just dropped him a note.

Yup, Jerry is a character, to say the least. He does have opinions and he can be abrasive at times but he doesn't mean anything by it, as far as I can tell. One of the hazards of email & forum relationships.... you never really, really know if the guy at the other end of the wire is legitimate or ???