C6 Interior Features and Amenities [Archive]

Gorgon

11-20-02, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by BigRed
Power Convert of course (Jeez MUSTANG has that!)

The current top and even the top of the C4 goes up and down so easily that I would hate to see weight added with a power top. The Mustang has nothing on the Corvette. I heard a bunch of people request the same thing at a show that had some GM reps there. Most of the stuff they asked for would add serious weight to the car which would compromise the performance of the car. I was expecting someone to ask for an automatic in the Z06, but thankfully no one asked.

As to what I'd like to see? Not sure. The C5 interior is clean and functional. Don't know that it needs much else.

Leon

BigRed

11-20-02, 10:27 PM

On my Dad's old 96 G.Cherokee the steering wheel would stiffen as you increased the speed! Thats was a neat feature.

Rob Ive never used the FX3 before I really can't comment to driving one before. FX3 has a button on the dash to adjust suspension stiffness? (Cool!)

I remember reading an article from Hib H about magnetic ride control does that tie into this somehow? Anywho if they got it great! if not make it so hehe

Rob

11-20-02, 10:41 PM

Nope, FX3 is completely different from the new Magnetic Selective Ride Control.

The FX3 consists of a dial in the center console. You have three selections: Tour, Sport, Performance

Tour is the softest settings....cushy and plush. Performance, in some cases will chip your teeth if you go over a big enough bump. It is the stiffest of the three settings.

I'm going from memory here and I'm too lazy to get up off my butt and dig out my books, so bear with me:

Within each setting the computer adjusts the shock absorbers depending upon speed. So, within Tour, there are several stiffening levels, within Sport, and Performance, the same thing; all depending upon speed.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I really should have this information in the Knowledgebase as I think a lot of people are unaware of exactly how the FX3 Selective Ride Control option works. What I've provided here is a rough explanation.

When driving my '90, I normally keep it in Sport which I find a reasonable level to keep the suspension in. If I know I'm going to be coming up to bumpy road, I'll throw it into Tour. If I feel like sowing my oats so to speak, and want to exericse the car, I'll go find a nice, curvy road somewhere and throw the system into Performance.

In 1996, I believe Chevrolet had an RTD (Real Time Dampening)system which replaced FX3. I forget exactly the theory behind the system, but if I recall correctly, the name was actually a mis-nomer because the system did not react in "real-time" there was a delay.

With today's computing capacity, I believe the new MSRC is the closest thing to "real time".

JBsC5

11-20-02, 11:46 PM

Only one item :

Dual clutch sequential manual shift technology.. like what Porsche is bringing out in the 2005 911..

This technology will surpass even BMW's excellent SMGII..

I know its not on the plate with the Corvette team but eventually it will be for its superior performance capabilities..and when it is..I'm buying at full MSRP and smiling..

Thats the only thing the Corvette's missing right now in my book. ..

BTW...Cigarette lighter socket powers my Gtech and ashtray holds the remote valentine 1 display so I vote we keep it.. ;)

JohnnyC

11-21-02, 02:01 AM

Ejector seat !!!

Maybe a button that would make machine guns pop out of the lights. A button that flipped the license plate to a different one.

Maybe the new C6 should have an automatic radar and laser detecters. Or a good option at least.

invinceablevett

11-21-02, 03:19 AM

please....no automatic top,the extra weight isn't worth it.I'd like the convertible to have as much power as the coupe ,make it the super convertible car.........I'd buy one,at whatever price as long as it outperforms all the same price-based cars.....AND paddle- like gear shifting on the steering wheel,the option to change gears or shift automatically(you know......when your hands are busy doing other things).Among all other things I'd like the choice of having a model available that would kick Vipers(a real race-type model where comfort is not considered)Maybe they should talk to callaway and work something out.

MacShee98

11-21-02, 06:42 AM

I have a list:

- Replace the Delco/Bose stereo head unit with an LCD touch-panel that includes GPS NAV and video-based rear vision system (bumper cam) that sees into the huge blind spot behind the rear fascia when backing up. Give the new head unit the ability to connect wirelessly to external devices (cell-phones, MP3 players) via Bluetooth. [Alpine is making a Bluetooth head unit now that allows cellphones to be controlled via the dash controls.] With an LCD screen, scan tools for diagnostics would be all but unneccessary.

- Heated Seats [seems extravagant until you've experienced them - stops the shivers long before the heater starts working, esp. when it's below 20 deg.] Make the seat back angle electrically adjustable - lose the chinzy mechanical lever.

- OnStar (optional)

- Steering Wheel Controls for Stereo/HVAC; paddle shifter for the A5 tranny

- HUD upgrade - add gear indication and HVAC settings

vette-dude

11-21-02, 06:58 AM

A 4 on the floor and a 5th in the seat as standard equipment!!!! Ice cube dispensor, on board girl magnet, satelite radio (that only plays Stevie Ray Vaughn) and digital CD/TV player that only gets the Playboy channel.

Hey a guy can wish can't he???

:j :j :j :j

lytemup

11-21-02, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Ken
Oh, name-calling now eh? I smoke. ;)

_ken :w

sorry, no offense! just hate the smell that leaves in a car! :L ;) :crazy

Edmond

11-21-02, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by jbolanowski
Ejector seat !!!

Maybe a button that would make machine guns pop out of the lights. A button that flipped the license plate to a different one.

Maybe the new C6 should have an automatic radar and laser detecters. Or a good option at least.

Ahhh, James Bond! LOL.

Seems like quite a few people want that paddle shifter. Do you shift faster with that?

toneron

11-21-02, 10:59 PM

I would like to see the option (or lack therof) I recall some buzz about when the C5 was coming out:

An option of NO OPTIONS!!

Why can't I just get 400 HP and a seat? :cool

Seems like in '96 they were saying that the Corvette would be spartan and that the fully tricked out version was going to be Stingray. Anyone else recall that???

I think the market would respond favorably to a $22,000 Corvette that had all analog gauges, no GPS/OnStar, no ABS (don't like that anyway), no power seats, changer, auto HVAC, etc... No computers except Engine Management System - oh and of course for the 6 speed sequential clutchless paddle-operated trans.

IMHO!
:D

Edmond

11-22-02, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by toneron
I would like to see the option (or lack therof) I recall some buzz about when the C5 was coming out:

An option of NO OPTIONS!!

Why can't I just get 400 HP and a seat? :cool

Seems like in '96 they were saying that the Corvette would be spartan and that the fully tricked out version was going to be Stingray. Anyone else recall that???

I think the market would respond favorably to a $22,000 Corvette that had all analog gauges, no GPS/OnStar, no ABS (don't like that anyway), no power seats, changer, auto HVAC, etc... No computers except Engine Management System - oh and of course for the 6 speed sequential clutchless paddle-operated trans.

IMHO!
:D

Yeah, I think quite a few old school performance junkies want that kind of Vette without all the heavy gadgets. Just a no nonsense extremely high performance sports car.

Black Ice

11-22-02, 02:21 PM

Just look at the inside pics of the XLR. There is your C6 interior.

Rob

11-22-02, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Black Ice
Just look at the inside pics of the XLR. There is your C6 interior. How do you know this???

Black Ice

11-22-02, 02:38 PM

Rob if you are on AOL IM or aim Im me @ roleku

Black Ice

11-22-02, 02:48 PM

What I am saying a close study of the Cadillacs dash and interior will give you a 80% look at the C6 Dash. It will be the same configuration just a little more sporty and less fancy of course. If you look closley you will also see a LOT of the C5 dash in the Cadillac. The C6 dash will not be all that different from that of C5. The C6 dash will be a heavly modfied version of the C5 dash. Not an all new design.

primeratec5

11-22-02, 09:03 PM

As long as we are permitted "blue sky", I will agree with the light weight, stripped down version, as long as we get the horsepower and 4 wheel drive............oh, a lot more high speed fun for the track.

DkBG

11-27-02, 08:56 PM

I would like to see a better location for the seat controls . Maybe like the early c-4 standard seat set-up . Its hard to reach between my big butt and the door on my C-5 . I know, I know ! Loose some weight . Cliff

Tomrw

11-27-02, 09:51 PM

I'd like to see

400+ Hp standard or better a ZO6 Convertible
Automatic transmission w/sequential manual shift
In dash 6CD changer
Better sound insulation on the convertible to cut wind noise then the top is up
and no ashtray or lighter. Oh, I guess keep the ashtray I use it for coins and the mail box key.

Colorado

11-27-02, 10:35 PM

I like that idea...and as long as we are filling out a "wish list", please let me expand on the interior features and amenities

C6 GT (as in Grand Touring) (I can hear the mumbling already) :L

Hey, after all, there is a Touring setting for the suspension, so how about giving us the option to enable the entire vehicle to be a touring module?

Team Corvette could offer: C6 Base (Coupe), C6 Convertible (Base Drop Top), C6P (Performance, read Z06), and C6 GT (Grand Touring Coupe or Convertible, but probably Coupe only).

GTs need a combination of straight line performance (acceleration and braking), canyon carving ability, and excellent to outstanding creature comforts. If you say that the Cadillac XLR is supposed to offer those attributes, then I just want to say that if I wanted a Cadillac I would have one now. I don't and won't. Why? A long subject...

C6 GT Interior Features

1. Quiet, thank you! Let's get down to about 70db regardless of road surface. Impossible? Throw me a bone! I will put up with 20 lb. of noise reducing foam, baffles, or other isolation techniques. Trust me! You don't know how embarassing it is to have a 50K car in which you can't talk to your passenger because of noise intrusion.

2. Heated leather seats. Okay, 2- 5 lb. for the wiring and control modules, but so what? If you are doing a tour, why live the life of a driver of a lesser vehicle?

3. Go ahead and cringe...yikes...cup holders. The one in the C5 in the console is barely adequate, and if you get one from a catalog to add a passenger holder, the holder intrudes on the passenger area at the left knee. Give me something to hold the java at 6 AM and the Pepsi in the afternoon, other than the option of cradling it between the legs. Know what I mean?

4. Luggage constraints. It's very nice that there is so much room in the coupe rear deck area, but if you need to make a neck snapping stop, you don't want all of your stuff joining you and your passenger in the front. A little thought here would be appreciated.

5. Pockets on the door panels. Remember, we are talking GT here. Give me some expandable leather pockets on the doors in which I can store "stuff". If you are on a coast-to-coast tour, you want some place to store things, like maps, aspirin, toll receipts, trash, etc. That aftermarket stuff with velcro straps drives me nuts.

6. Magnet Ride Control Standard. I just watched the CD that came with my 2003 sales brochure, and I like the comparison to the standard suspension. I could get used to that real quick.

7. 385 RWHP Standard. This can be optional in base, but I think that 385 will adequately handle the additional weight. I'm tired of gross HP, or flywheel HP...let's advertise the HP that gets to the ground (rear wheel horsepower).

8. Wind noise elimination around the removable top. 'Nuff said.

I could go on, but I'd probably have to open my own web site :L

Save the Wave :w

Edmond

11-27-02, 10:45 PM

I really like number 7. I think they should offer different types because there are different types of Corvette consumers out there. There are the performance ones, there are the cruiser ones and then there are the ones in between.

doylede

11-27-02, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Ken
Oh, name-calling now eh? I smoke. ;)

And seeing as how we're loading the Corvette up with extra weight anyway, I'd want a on-board jacking system built in. :D

_ken :w

Extra Weight! No! No! The tiny ashtray stuff is not even usefull. Cornhole should save his pennies and not attack current owners.

Smoking it up over here Boss!

Colorado

11-27-02, 11:10 PM

Exactly, Edmond! BTW, I really like the shot of your Anniversary '88 :s

doylede

11-27-02, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by Colorado
I like that idea...and as long as we are filling out a "wish list", please let me expand on the interior features and amenities

C6 GT (as in Grand Touring) (I can hear the mumbling already) :L

Hey, after all, there is a Touring setting for the suspension, so how about giving us the option to enable the entire vehicle to be a touring module?

Team Corvette could offer: C6 Base (Coupe), C6 Convertible (Base Drop Top), C6P (Performance, read Z06), and C6 GT (Grand Touring Coupe or Convertible, but probably Coupe only).

GTs need a combination of straight line performance (acceleration and braking), canyon carving ability, and excellent to outstanding creature comforts. If you say that the Cadillac XLR is supposed to offer those attributes, then I just want to say that if I wanted a Cadillac I would have one now. I don't and won't. Why? A long subject...

C6 GT Interior Features

1. Quiet, thank you! Let's get down to about 70db regardless of road surface. Impossible? Throw me a bone! I will put up with 20 lb. of noise reducing foam, baffles, or other isolation techniques. Trust me! You don't know how embarassing it is to have a 50K car in which you can't talk to your passenger because of noise intrusion.

2. Heated leather seats. Okay, 2- 5 lb. for the wiring and control modules, but so what? If you are doing a tour, why live the life of a driver of a lesser vehicle?

3. Go ahead and cringe...yikes...cup holders. The one in the C5 in the console is barely adequate, and if you get one from a catalog to add a passenger holder, the holder intrudes on the passenger area at the left knee. Give me something to hold the java at 6 AM and the Pepsi in the afternoon, other than the option of cradling it between the legs. Know what I mean?

4. Luggage constraints. It's very nice that there is so much room in the coupe rear deck area, but if you need to make a neck snapping stop, you don't want all of your stuff joining you and your passenger in the front. A little thought here would be appreciated.

5. Pockets on the door panels. Remember, we are talking GT here. Give me some expandable leather pockets on the doors in which I can store "stuff". If you are on a coast-to-coast tour, you want some place to store things, like maps, aspirin, toll receipts, trash, etc. That aftermarket stuff with velcro straps drives me nuts.

6. Magnet Ride Control Standard. I just watched the CD that came with my 2003 sales brochure, and I like the comparison to the standard suspension. I could get used to that real quick.

7. 385 RWHP Standard. This can be optional in base, but I think that 385 will adequately handle the additional weight. I'm tired of gross HP, or flywheel HP...let's advertise the HP that gets to the ground (rear wheel horsepower).

8. Wind noise elimination around the removable top. 'Nuff said.

I could go on, but I'd probably have to open my own web site :L

Save the Wave :w

Hey, buy a Mercedes two-seater V-12. Pay the $160K, accept the drop in performance and be happy that you can talk with your buddy without embarresement.

Colorado

11-27-02, 11:39 PM

LOL... thanks :L

Edmond

11-28-02, 01:48 PM

Remember that it wasn't too long ago when you had a ton of options when you bought a new car? What happened to those days? I say bring those days back!

Trance_LT4

11-28-02, 02:11 PM

What I want to see in the C6 is a paddle shifter option in a hardtop, lower weight, same stiff chasis and 50/50 ratio as the C5, powerful engine with LOADS more potential than factory. It'd be nice, if only in the vette, if they'd offer and engine that ALREADY HAS forged internals. They know alot of vettes get modified, why not play into that market some. Possibly even offer a factory installed roll bar/cage factored into the sell price, and a Racarro or other racing seat partnership option (like the Cobra R had).

As for dropping the cig lighter and ashtray out of the C6.......I don't know anyone who smokes in their car and needs those things to do it. I have smoked in my cars in the past, but not in the corvette. I never use the ashtray....I ash out the window, and I have , my own lighter since the radar detector is using the cig lighter.

I never smoked in my C4 for only one reason, and it isn't to keep the smell out.......its impossible to ash out of the windows in mine, cause the outside mirrors deflect all the air to the inside, and you end up ashing back into the car.

If you wanna know if the guy smoked in the car or not.....take him out to dinner with the car and do nothing but talk about the car. If by the end of dinner, and the drive back, he hasn't smoked......he has enough restraint to have kept the car smoke free (or he aint a smoker).

Colorado

11-28-02, 02:11 PM

Remember that it wasn't too long ago when you had a ton of options when you bought a new car?

In '70, I re-enlisted in the Navy and received a small re-enlistment bonus. I couldn't let that burn a hole in my pocket, so I got a brochure for the 1970 Duster (I was a MOPAR fan back then). After spending hours wearing out the brochure, I ordered a Duster 340 exactly the way I wanted. About six weeks later it arrived, and was I ever amazed it took two whole window stickers to document my options! Man, that was fun!! I know that we understand why the "packages" exist, but it would be nice to have those option lists to ponder over :)

Edmond

11-28-02, 02:16 PM

Trance,

I think one of the reasons why Chevy won't give the Corvette that much power is because of the cost and for legal reasons:

1. Cost-if they beef up the motor, everything else like the tranny, brake system, etc... has to also be beefed up to maintain safety for the car.

2. Legal-if a mass produced car is really that fast , there would be a lot of cars out there and more people would be inclined to race them. People would get into more trouble with the law and that could eventually lead to Chevy. If people mod the car and make it fast, that's a different story than if Chevy came out of the box with so much power.

ErnieN85

11-28-02, 03:23 PM

Well, I'll be the vote for an automatic on a ZO6........ I,ve shifted enough! no valid reason to put up with it on a daily driver! and I drive mine! traffic jams are hard on you and the car. The latest auto transmissions are computer controlled so it would be no big deal to make it shift NOW! or to incorporate the paddle shift! for the people who want it hard & fast or slow & easy that could be a drive selection self programable as to how hard & fast say 0 -100 and programable with the present readouts you could even use the radio volume for input as in up down buttons. programing is wonderful when you use your imagination. sillyest thing is most of it is already there! just not accesable.

LT1Vettepilot

11-28-02, 04:45 PM

What is up with this &%$ paddle shifter?!
I hated the idea when Ferrari took the F355 in that direction, I think it is all wrong for the Corvette, and if you've EVER driven any kind of vehicle with the "manual shift automatic" pain you would understand why I'm so against such an overly hyped up "performance" option. THEY SUCK!

If you want a frick'n automatic, buy one. If you want performance and fun in driving, buy a manual!

As for options I'ld like to see in the C6...
MAKE THE MANUAL STANDARD AGAIN!!!!!!! (Do you see a trend here?)No cost option for an auto-fine, less expensive to order the auto-fine, but for those of us who don't float through life and want a sports car because its a sports car, give us back the manual transmission.

Toss the idea of a touch screen for the radio and HVAC controls, I want something I can reach over and push a button on without taking my eyes off the road at 100+mph (or even at 50mph on some of the back roads I enjoy so much). Auto A/C such as the C4 and C5 currently have available are great...pick a temp and forget about it. More fan? easy to find without looking. Adjust temp? Easy to find without looking.
Navigation system????? Tell me there is no Corvette enthusiast who has forgotten about just driving to see where it takes you and knows how to read a map!

On Star would be nice, after all there is always a chance that you need emergency response.
In dash 6-disc CD changer, that would be great
heated seats...definetly. For those of us who drive or Vettes year round, that mornig commute during the winter would be much more comfortable with a bun warmer.
Power seat controls back to the center of the dash
400HP for the base corvette-with a no frills base model MSRP $30,000 (Anyone else remember a base Corvette for $30K that would stomp just about anything else on the road?)
Z06 stepped up to 500HP to compete with Viper, the only other true American sports car. Lets keep Corvette competitive.
Fit and finish cleaned up a bit. Initial build quality is good, but it doesn't take long before squeaks and rattles appear.
More interior color options-Specifically Torch Red with ANY outside body color.

doylede

11-30-02, 10:52 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LT1Vettepilot
[B]What is up with this &%$ paddle shifter?!
I hated the idea when Ferrari took the F355 in that direction, I think it is all wrong for the Corvette, and if you've EVER driven any kind of vehicle with the "manual shift automatic" pain you would understand why I'm so against such an overly hyped up "performance" option. THEY SUCK!

If you want a frick'n automatic, buy one. If you want performance and fun in driving, buy a manual!

LT1Vettepilot.

First, let's understand that "paddle-shift" refers to two types of tranmissions, automatic and computer controlled manual.

The automatic type is best represented by Porsche's TipTronic or perhaps the newer Mercedes autos in vechicles such as the ML55. I picked these two because I have driven both of them. The Mercedes is a regular automatic that can be shifted up and down by tapping the console mounted shift lever to the left or right.

The Porsche as installed in my friend's Boxester S, can be set to regular automatic (nothing new here), semi-auto (you shift - if you don't, auto takes over, and manual - you shift or blow the engine (not really - fuel shut-off will protect it). In semi-auto or manual modes, shifting is done by thumb presses on buttons on each side of the steering wheel (redundant buttons are placed on the left and right sides of the horizontal wheel spoke). This idea is also used in some NHRA drag transmissions because the driver simply doesn't have time to operate a shift lever while going from 0 to 200+ in six seconds or so.

The computer controlled manual is the Ferrari type. It shifts with paddles or buttons, and can have an automatic mode or not. The big difference is that this is a MANUAL transmission, i.e. gears meshing with gears. Ferrari's F1 version shifts faster than ANY driver.

Ferrari has had and may still have a huge problem convincing their primadonna drivers of this fact. This is the type of "paddle-shift" transmission that NEEDs to go in the Z06. Price will be the big problem, but GM should beat this because this type of transmission should eventually be in all vechicles. It's an adding machine versus the modern calculator situation.

Don

LT1Vettepilot

11-30-02, 11:22 PM

Apparently I'm just old fashioned...I want a clutch and a stick shift. I don't want to push buttons to shift, I don't want the transmission/computer to decide what gear I "should be" in. Don, you're right Ferrari has the right idea, it is a true manual, just clutchless. If you are going to have an automatically shifted manual transmission, that would be the way to go...I still hold firm that losing a true manual transmission (one where you do the shifting...thats why its call MANUAL) would be a great loss to performance enthusiasts.
As for the auto system shifting faster than any driver...this is true...don't have time when going from 0-200mph in 6 seconds doesn't appear to be something the average Corvette buyer will ever have to worry about...at least not until perhaps the 100th anniversery edition.

Edmond

12-01-02, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by LT1Vettepilot
don't have time when going from 0-200mph in 6 seconds doesn't appear to be something the average Corvette buyer will ever have to worry about...at least not until perhaps the 100th anniversery edition.

Yeah right! Did you see what they did for the 50th?:L :L :L

Seriously though, I think why so many performance enthusiasts want that paddle style/clutchless shifter is because its faster. Faster for drag and street (not advisable BTW) racing. Plus, the more things that you're trying to do at a faster rate, the more likely you'll mess up. If anyone in here has claimed to never missed a shift, they're lying. We've all missed shifts and having a clutchless shifter would alleviate some of that problem.

I remember we did a study years ago for a psychology class about reactions. Seems like the closer the body part is to your brain, the faster it can react, ie. your eyes blink so fast but you kick a ball somewhat slow. It also has to do with physics, the mass of the object you have to move. I think all of us can move our hands faster than our feet.

LT1Vettepilot

12-01-02, 12:58 PM

I agree most people can move their hands faster than their feet. However why give steering to both hands, up shifting with one hand and down shifting with the other. If you want to use the "its faster" argument, that only holds water in drag racing where you are only going in a straight line and shifting in only one direction. Try a really twisty road where you are up shifting and down shifting repetively and your hands will get confused. Not to mention a skilled driver will know what gear he/she is in just by feeling where the stick is. With a paddle shifter you're taking your eyes off the road to figure out where your transmission is at. Granted with HUD technology the gear can be displayed in line of sight. However I've driver a HUD equiped car and you still have to change your focus to see the smaller items in the display. With a traditional manual transmission, you still have one hand doing nothing but steering, one hand does nothing but shifting and can also be utilized for steering when neccesary, one foot operating gas/brake and one on the clutch. Just makes more sense to me. Not to mention...electronically controlled manual, with servo actuated clutch? Come one...you're asking for something to go wrong that will either strand you some place because you can't get the transmission into or out of gear, or even worse an incorrect gear selection at 100+ mph...say it drops to second. With a manual, your hand knows where it is going and chances of shifting from 6th to second at 100+ when down shifting are slim, a paddle shifter while your adrenaline is rushing and you hit it one to many times...empty your wallet and credit cards on the service counter please. Leave an arm and leg on your way out. At least with mechanical shift linkage, if you break it...you can still limp her home (still expensive, but it wouldn't be nearly as bad as all electronic).
The funny thing about all this is...I'm from the younger, computer controlled generation and I'm sitting here preaching for the old school! I can't tune a carburator to save my life...give me the efficiency of a computer controlled engine. Those I understand. I have to draw the line at the electronic transmission though. It takes all the fun out of driving. Which seems to be the biggest point. Society seems to want the electronic highway, electronic saftey, automatic cars that do the driving for you. I don't want to be a passenger in life, I want to be the driver.
:cool

Edmond

12-01-02, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by LT1Vettepilot
I can't tune a carburator to save my life...:cool

They still have those?:L :L :L

Trance_LT4

12-01-02, 11:06 PM

Maybe its belonging to the video game generation, but my hands don't get confused using a paddle shifter on a road course. Its a heck of alot easier than removing a hand from the steering wheel to move down and work the shift lever. I see no advantage of a stick shift system over a semiautomatic. Especially when the computer automatically blips the throttle for you when downshifting into a corner. No tap dancing the sometimes awekward procedure of "heel toe" braking. As far as more things to go wrong, how many shifts do the cars equipped with these transmissions do during a 24 hour race? I have more of a chance of breaking something/burning out the clutch than the computer. I just think this technology is alot more efficient, and once you get used to using it, you can be a more efficient (read fast and consistent) driver with it.

twiget

12-02-02, 07:23 AM

I dont think onstar, or any other system like it has any place in a sports car like the Corvette. Though, I'm sure GM will disagree with me, and make it avalible (though hopefully not standard). I for one feel the whole Onstar system is too close to the whole "Big Brother", 1984 concept. If it, or any system simmilar is ever on a vehicle I purchace, I will give serious thought to disabling it.

As for the interior of the C6, I would like to see something other than plastic. I'm not too sure how a wood finish would fit in a high performance sports car like the Corvette. However, I think carbon fiber fit's the bill perfectly. And perhaps, higher quailty leather for the seats. I'd also like an extra inch of head room. As it is, I had to remove the support straps under the seat of my GS in order to sit comfortably. It still only leaves me with about 1/2 inch head room, which is not enough on some roads.

Jason

LT1Vettepilot

12-02-02, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by Trance_LT4
Maybe its belonging to the video game generation, but my hands don't get confused using a paddle shifter on a road course. Its a heck of alot easier than removing a hand from the steering wheel to move down and work the shift lever. I see no advantage of a stick shift system over a semiautomatic. Especially when the computer automatically blips the throttle for you when downshifting into a corner. No tap dancing the sometimes awekward procedure of "heel toe" braking. As far as more things to go wrong, how many shifts do the cars equipped with these transmissions do during a 24 hour race? I have more of a chance of breaking something/burning out the clutch than the computer. I just think this technology is alot more efficient, and once you get used to using it, you can be a more efficient (read fast and consistent) driver with it.

In other words...no skill required.
That is what I'm talking about when it comes to driving. I'm in it for the experience of driving...not just mearly pointing the car where I want to go. Yes, I fully understand there is more than just shifting when it comes to skill requirement, but the more responsibility you take away from the driver, the less involved in the experience you become.
Example...I was working on my private pilots license many years ago. The plane we used was extremely simple. Very little was NOT done by the pilot. I am now an aircraft engine mechanic. We have aircrews that refuse to fly if simple things, that used to be the pilots job and now are computer controlled, don't work. All of our aircraft used to have sextants in them. Reason, incase the navigation system failed, the Navigators could still get you home. They were probably still there because someone like me believed they should be there, just in case. Well they have all been removed now, our navigators are no longer trained on how to use them, and if the nav system fails (which they do frequently) the plane doesn't fly.
where is the fun in driving if you all you do is push a button. It goes from being an experience in life to being nothing more than a video game.

Trance_LT4

12-02-02, 03:27 PM

Ok, if more involvement is what you desire, do you wish for them to take away all the traction control, active handling, electromagnetic suspension, ect ect ect.........Why don't you just buy an OLD car?

LT1Vettepilot

12-02-02, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Trance_LT4
Ok, if more involvement is what you desire, do you wish for them to take away all the traction control, active handling, electromagnetic suspension, ect ect ect.........Why don't you just buy an OLD car?

Actually I'm looking at finding an old car to play with...but I don't care much for the older Vettes...except for the C1s and if I had a C1 it would be a garage queen. So I'm looking for a 68 Camaro or same gen Firebird to play with.
As for taking away the other stuff...as long as there is an off switch, I don't mind it. I realize there is alot of safety improvement with such system. HOWEVER, when I am out playing with my vette, the traction control gets turned off (as long as the roads aren't slick) and the ride control gets switched to the firmest setting.
On a side note, I haven't had a chance to ride in a new vette with the magnetic ride control, I would imagine it would not take much if anything away from the driving experience. As a daily driver, I do admit that it is nice to soften the suspension up a little. As for traction control and active handling. Great ideas, especially for those of us who use our vettes as daily drivers. As I said though...they need an off switch, and the 2002 active handling with the competition mode is a great in between system for when you want to play but don't want to take too big of a risk of wrapping such an expensive toy around a tree.
Unlike these features though, a paddle style shifter doesn't have an off switch. You can't decide one day that you want to play and flip a switch to have a stick shift and the next day while stuck in rush hour traffic use the paddle shifters.

MsSchroder

12-02-02, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by LT1Vettepilot
Try a really twisty road where you are up shifting and down shifting repetively and your hands will get confused. Not to mention a skilled driver will know what gear he/she is in just by feeling where the stick is. With a paddle shifter you're taking your eyes off the road to figure out where your transmission is at. ...
With a manual, your hand knows where it is going and chances of shifting from 6th to second at 100+ when down shifting are slim,...
. I have to draw the line at the electronic transmission though. It takes all the fun out of driving. Which seems to be the biggest point. Society seems to want the electronic highway, electronic saftey, automatic cars that do the driving for you. I don't want to be a passenger in life, I want to be the driver.
:cool
AMEN!
I have no experience with the F1-style computerized manual shifters, but I believe they would be very fast and useful for racing... not to mention ultra cool... and ultra expensive. I'm wondering how you would get confused and have to look down- isn't there 1 button for upshift and 1 button for down?
But for daily driving: I agree with LT1Vettepilot- a manual transmission certainly allows you to be more "as one" with your car. I never have to look at the shifter to figure out what gear I'm in... and I don't even think about what gear I want when I shift. I just know ... I guess based on the position of the shifter.
I've never owned anything other than manual transmission cars , even my very first, a 1980 Chevette!! LOL. (with the exception of my minivan beater-mobile that I bought this year; if they made minivans with manuals, believe me, I'd have gotten one!) If the automatic had been an option on my vette, I would not have bought it even if the car was only $15K... the thought of an automatic on a z06 just leaves me cold. OK, the thought of an automatic on any car just leaves me cold. but that's just me.
I can understand there are people who prefer autos, for health reasons or traffic issues. There's nothing wrong with it, its just not for me...

As for the active handling and traction control.... you can turn those off! (I don't know about the electromagnetic suspension.)

Edmond

12-02-02, 06:58 PM

I think what Trance is saying is that while everything else in the world changes and goes forward, so should the automotive technology. Why should the Corvette leave old technology behind just because it's a sports car? It shouldn't because if it did leave all this new technology behind, we would have no:

active handling
HUD
air conditioning
runflats
air bags
etc...

Even the Corvette has to undergo changes to stay competitive.

LT1Vettepilot

12-02-02, 07:19 PM

Moving forward with technology is good, I agree 100%. However there are certain areas that should still be left up to the consumer/operator/driver/individual, etc...With the advent of new technology there are always those that not only accept with open arms, but jump at the opportunity before it is fully tested, and there are those that are just plain stubborn and refuse to evolve. Of course there are those in between as well. I'm one of those in the middle of the road, but I tend to lean towards new technology. There comes a point where regardless of how good the technology is, we need to step back and say "do we need this or want this, or are we doing it just because we can?" At that point, when looking at a product sold to a mass population, especially a sports car in the USA where a vehicle becomes a person's identity, there should be choices and limits to where the technology goes. For safety reasons, I agree the traction control, air bags, and active handling should be standard. The HUD is a luxury item, for now, and therefore a consumer can just say no. The other safety features can be turned off (with exception to the driver's air bag of course) still leaving the choice to the consumer. If a paddle shift system was availabe on Corvette, I'm sure it would sell extremely well...because automatics sell extremely well (which completely just blows my mind...ITS A SPORTS CAR PEOPLE!!!) Individuals looking at an automatic because they either don't like to shift, don't want to shift, or sit in rush hour traffic and now have a left calf twice the size of their right, may opt for the manu-matic paddle shifter. While those of us who still enjoy, or have the opportunity to enjoy driving will still opt for the traditional stick shift.
While we are discussing saftey in all this...if they take one more thing away from me that I need to be doing while I drive, I swear I'm going to fall asleep out of boredom on the highway. The NTSB has historically preached "speed kills" Well I somewhat agree...its the SLOW speed on the open free ways that kills. It numbs the mind and boredom sets in (traditionally labeled tunnel vision). At higher speeds, you are less likely to fall asleep and there are fewer accidents (Yes, this has been proven, I just don't recall at the moment where I found the information)
As cars become more sophisticated, there is less and less for the "driver" to do. Essentially becomeing nothing more than a passenger with some input to the direction of travel. At this point, all the "saftey features" become a hazard. This all leads back to, let me and my gear head cohorts keep our standard hand operated transmission with foot operated clutch. It keeps us entertained, keeps our minds awake, and keeps us safe. (When all else fails...preach saftey...someone is bound to agree! :L )

Dad

12-02-02, 11:29 PM

Is this that shabby old interior you're talking about??

http://www.westohiocorvettes.com/

I shifted those "sport" cars for well over 40 years and I now welcome the lowly automatic which will kick your's more than you will admit.

:eyerole :t

Trance_LT4

12-02-02, 11:41 PM

The only good automatics are the built ones people use for drag cars that are took quick to be bothered with manual transmissions. Otherwise slush boxes are for the grocery getters. A Z06 aint a grocery getter, hence.....no slush box.

Dad

12-02-02, 11:58 PM

Narrow minded thinking and not very true. People tend to drive what fits their needs, not someone's thoughts on what they should drive. Again, bring it on or hang it up.

Trance_LT4

12-02-02, 11:59 PM

Drive what fits your needs, but GM says you don't need an automatic in a Z06

JBsC5

12-03-02, 12:13 AM

a completely new transmission
that uses two clutches for swift changes. The six-speed Direct Shift Gearbox
(DSG) transmission is said to combine all the benefits of a conventional
six-speed manual gearbox with the qualities of a modern automatic. Audi claims it
gives enormous agility, driving enjoyment and economy as well as convenient
operation and smooth acceleration with uninterrupted traction.

The revolutionary transmission is actually based on a six-speed manual
gearbox, but thanks to the use of an integrated twin multi-plate clutch with an
ingenious control system, two gears can be engaged at the same time. During
normal running, one gear is engaged, but when the next gearshift point is
approached, the appropriate gear is pre-selected but its clutch is kept
disengaged. The gearshift process disengages the clutch of the activated gear and
engages the other clutch at the same moment. The gear change takes place under
load, with the result that a permanent flow of power is maintained.
The control logic integrated into the transmission maintains optimum
gearshift strategies that perform lightning-fast gearshifts that are, according to
Audi, nevertheless smooth and almost jolt-free. The driver can shift by means
of the gear lever in the manual gate or the standard-fit shift paddles on
the steering wheel.
As on conventional manual gearboxes, the transmission ratios are present on
input and auxiliary shafts in the form of pairs of toothed wheels. In
contrast to manual gearboxes, the input shaft is divided into two sections. It
comprises an outer hollow shaft, and an inner shaft. The first, third, fifth
gears and reverse are located on the inner shaft. The hollow shaft handles the
even-numbered gears. Each of these shafts is selected by means of a separate
multi-plate clutch running in oil. The two electronically controlled,
hydraulically actuated clutches are packed inside each other for maximum space
economy.
As well as their high efficiency and ability to transmit high torque,
clutches of this type permit a wide range of starting characteristics. The
multi-plate clutch can be controlled in such a way that every form of moving off is
possible, from an ultra-gentle edging along on a slippery surface to
sports-style acceleration at full throttle.
Audi claims the gearshifts feel “spontaneous and decisive, as if executed
at the push of a button.” An electronic-control throttle blip feature in
manual and Sport modes reinforces the impression of ultra-dynamic gearshifts.

JBsC5

12-03-02, 12:20 AM

Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, as well as the 1 million dollar Bugati with 1001 hp..

They put this new technology together because it just works better than any human is capable of.

Corvette in the C6 high performance version will be more apt to put out the reported 550hp that the new engine is capable of if..the engineers can meet the fuel economy and emissions requirements of our government..

This new transmission technology will allow the engineers to more easily meet those requirements and give us..as much power at the same time..

Just imagine full throttle upshifts and perfectly timed downshifts as an added bonus!

No lifting of the throttle is necessary during each shift..

That alone is worth the price of admission to a manual transmission....that has a computerized clutch..

In this case..and in all future iterations..dual clutches for symotaniously (sp) releasing one clutch and activating another..

50 millisecond shifts..

Edmond

12-03-02, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by JBsC5
They put this new technology together because it just works better than any human is capable of.

Exactly!

Dad

12-03-02, 01:13 AM

I have 3 standard shift and 2 with automatics each has a different job to do. That was when they were built that is, now the 3 standard shifts are for show only.

If I were given the chance to build the Corvette the way I wanted it I wonder how many people would buy it. That is the problem with GM; those darn buggers want a car that will sell enough to make a profit.

Mine would have an engine that would twist today’s hydro formed frames, smoke the 12 inch wide tires on the back and lift the 10 inch tires on the front, clear the 1/4 mile in 6 to 8 seconds. No radio, no heater, no active anything, no ABS, just a fuel injected, (computer controlled of course), honker that makes you wear ear plugs and change your pants. A rock crusher 4 speed and clutch setup that will take a 10 grand launch. That is its job, on a sanctioned track, on the weekend.

But wait, I want to run the road course, so I need to make the tires fit that job and setup the frame and suspension a little different. Would need to be a little lighter and more agile. May have to go to a 6 speed to get a better gear selection in the turns. Throw out the radio and the extra seat, no spare or luggage space required, now I got the perfect car.

What? I need to go to the folks this weekend, what will I drive with the wife, (don't have one of those), along. She wants what, heat, air, music, and dry during the rain. OK, this is getting serious now, lets build something that I can use and enjoy, how about a C5 automatic? The others will have to sit in the garage until the weekend that we can go back to racing. I guess if you can't afford the car that is built to do the job at hand you can compromise and get something that halfway does the job, and race it on the streets. Then there are those that race on sanctioned tracks and don't need the stick shift to show anybody anything while they are on the street.

In other words, we all have our likes and dislikes but that’s no reason to knock someone’s choice to drive an automatic, or anything else for that matter. Most of us are here because of our love for the Corvette, after having owned at least one of every generation, first 8 were sticks, and driving about 2 million miles in 45 years, I will say that the C5 is without question the finest machine I've ever driven. I feel cheated by GM on the 50th but it's done and over with, so lets look ahead and enjoy what they did give us. Will we get what we would like in the C6? Yes, and no, some will, some won't, will we be happy, again, yes and no. Will we buy them? You bet, and then we'll start adding on the after market dodads to make them run like we think we want them to.

Ain't life grand??

Edmond

12-03-02, 01:17 AM

Not to mention that some persons with a physical disability may not be able to constantly use that clutch pedal, but they want high performance.

Dad

12-03-02, 01:34 AM

Drive what fits your needs, but GM says you don't need an automatic in a Z06

In 1982 they said you don't need a manual transmission in any Corvette, so what does that prove?

Trance_LT4

12-03-02, 02:34 AM

My point of view is there is a crowd that accepts everything as cool, and greets all with open arms........ and then there is a crowd that has the opinion there are certain "rules" to follow with our hobby. Rules against such things as pink corvettes, automatic trannies in a car most at home on the curves of such tracks such as Leguna Seca and VIR, chevy engines in ford roadsters (yuck), and provocative personalized licenese plates (such as viprklr, 8urstang, ect, ect.) on factory stock cars that can't back it up when push comes to shove.

Different strokes for different folks. GM does what they think will make em the most money, sometimes with regard to what kinda respect they will get from performance centered customers. (Grand Sport, Z06, ZR1.....ALL MANUAL TRANNIES) , sometimes without regard (discontinuing the Buick GN).

We can only hope they will have SOMETHING out there for everyone. Automatic convertibles for some people, and stick shift hardtops for the other crowd.

Rob

12-03-02, 07:37 AM

I think everyone has made some good points. When it comes to sports cars, I tend to lean towards the conservative side: make them basic, lightweight with a manual transmission and enough performance to excite the living hell out of me.

However, with that said, I spent 5 years commuting back and forth to work from New Hampshire to Boston, MA. What normally took 40 minutes to accomplish, took up to 1 1/2 hours one way during rush hour traffic. I spent a good number of those years driving a GMC Jimmy with a 4 speed manual. That was a ROYAL pain in the butt. When I was getting ready to buy my next car, my primary "want" was that whatever I ended up with, it would have to have an automatic transmission. When I bought my Ford F150, I can't tell you how ecstatic I was to finally drive something with an automatic in rush hour traffic.

I strongly believe that a Corvette should be ordered with a manual, however, I can completely understand why someone would want an automatic equipped Corvette if they are using it to commute back and forth to work with.

If I used my current Vette to get me back and forth to work, my left leg would be killing me by the time I got into work. If I was going to buy another Corvette and use it as my daily transportation for work, I hate to admit it, but chances are, it would be equipped with an automatic.

For all other purposes, give me the manual, give me that feeling of running through the gears and working those pedals.

It really boils down to what your intended use will be.

JBsC5

12-03-02, 07:49 AM

Rob..what you described..is exactly why this new technology..with dual Clutches on a stick shift car..operated by computers to engage and disengage the clutch..can be....

The best of both worlds..

The fact that it offers the driver the responsiblity to choose the gears and when ...to choose them.. along with the efficiciency of a standard transmission..makes it all the better during 50 Millisecond upshifts..

or in commutes..the total automatic mod..

We'll see Audi, Porsche, BMW M machines here in the states with this new Standard shift (computer) transmission..We'll hear the reports back in the press for at least 2 years..

Then we can each decide..oh..and I am sure Standard Stick shifts without computer control will still be available for at least the first few years of each models production..

so everyone can buy what they want..

Colorado

12-03-02, 10:34 PM

Maybe it's just me (or maybe because of my generation), but when I think of "sport cars" , I think of MGs and Triumphs, and to a lesser extent, Fiat 850s and 124s and the Datsun Fairlady 1600. There are others, of course.

When I think of "muscle cars", I see a Mustang Boss 429, Chevelle SS454, Dodge Superbee, The Judge, and their cousins. Ground pounding, straight line numbers off the showroom floor.

When I think of "performance cars" I think Corvette, and to a lesser extent some "muscle cars" with verve (e.g., the Mustang Boss 302, one nice road car for its time).

Performance cars, IMHO, balance straight line power, controllability in the twisties, fantastic braking, outstanding creature comforts, and "to die for" looks.I think that performance cars should reflect the utmost capabilities of the marque, balanced with affordability.

Corvette is king when balancing priorities and providing an affordable performance car. Sure, I'd like some refinements here and there.

Automatic vs Stick vs Paddle. I like them all. If I could, I would have one of each. I have experience with the first two, of course, and have seen the latter only on Speed Channel. I would really like the opportunity to try one of those paddle shifters. I think that the "brain" behind the shifting would be smart enough to stop me from down shifting to an inappropriate gear should I hit the left paddle one too many times. Lots of us drive in congested areas, and to me (and the better half) Automatic is the choice if there is a choice of "only" one Corvette. We can still stick her in second gear, and up/down shift, while carving Deer Creek Canyon, Turkey Creek Canyon, Lookout Mountain heading from I-70 into Golden, if we like. But the stoplight-to-stoplight, stop sign-to-stop sign environment in which we drive really does call out the choice for automatic.

And still, the bottom line for me is all-around performance. Performance off the line, 0-100-0, in the turns, on the binders, and to do all of that comfortably (with Performance) regardless of whether we are looking at a 200 mile local jaunt, or a 6,000 mile USA tour. With that in mind, I would really like to see the option of a Corvette (C6) GT.

Thank you, Rob, for providing the forum in which we may express our ideas.

- Gene :_rock

LT1Vettepilot

12-04-02, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by JBsC5
Audi claims it
gives enormous agility, driving enjoyment and economy as well as convenient
operation and smooth acceleration with uninterrupted traction.

Sounds like a very interesting system...however their idea of driving enjoyment is begging for argument? Which driver? I do like the idea that they keep an option for a manual gear shift lever or the paddle shifter. Obviously if Corvette was to acquire this over priced and over engineer slush box replacement, I would choose the stick. However with electronically controlled clutches, hmmm that means no clutch...which still take much of the skill and enjoyment out of driving. I'll pass

JBsC5

12-04-02, 11:54 PM

There will always be standard shifts available offered as a choice with this new sequential shift technology..for as long as there is a demand and the car manufacturers can still meet government standards..

The two technologies of standard shift and sequential shifts are really in many ways a piggy backing of one idea on the traditional stick shift..

This new twin clutch maybe different..that I'm not sure yet if the standard transmission will offered by audi/porsche etc.. will be identical other than the meathod of activating the clutch..(foot pedal vs. computer activation)

So the clutch pedal purist have nothing to be concerned about..

Guys, don't get me wrong..I dig driving this Z06 six speed..yet if the car would be faster, and quicker and more consistant..what the hell.. ;)

I would embrace (sp) the new technology..but thats just me.

Porsche, Ferrari, Bugatti, Maserati, BMW, Alfa Romeo, Audi, Aston Martin. The list is too long and too impressive for me to ignore the possiblities that could exist as this technology is about to reach the cutting edge..

Formula one drivers..rally drivers..this isn't smoke and mirrors..

I believe this to be enough creditials to warrant a good hard look by Corvette engineers and enthusiasts to maintain Corvette Performance supremacy..

And buyers most probably for many years will have options of what they prefer..

Have a good one

LT1Vettepilot

12-05-02, 08:52 AM

The idea of a clutchless manual is not exactly a new idea. Shortly after the paddle shifter made it into F1 cars, Ferrari was tinkering with a hyraulic clutch working off of servos. There were pressure sensors mounted in the shift lever, gas peddle, and brake pedal. Along with computer monitoring these sensors, it also monitored engine RPM. I forget exactly how the system works now, but it was something along the lines of this: Computer would monitor how fast RPM was rising and predict when the driver would shift, then backed that prediction up with throttle lift and pressure on the shift lever. When pressure was applied, the servo actuated hydraulic clutch would disengage allowing the driver to up shift. After shifting the clutch would engage again as RPM and transmission speed matched. Down shifting was similiar, only the computer would pick up pressure on the brake the monitor engine RPM. If RPM dropped to low, the clutch would disengage without pressure from the gear shift.
I don't recall which car they were using as a test bed, I believe a later iteration of the 308, or possibly the early 355. At the time, they were considering the paddle shifter instead, because the technology was already available in their F1 cars. Obviously they went with the paddle shifter in the 355 when they believed it was time to lose manual gear shifter.
There is just no telling where technology will take us. I would say, some of us are leading the pack, and then there are those of us who will always drag our feet...at least in some areas anyways.

JBsC5

12-05-02, 09:02 AM

Ferrari's unit with capability to shift in 150 milliseconds was just a few years ago..the best..now its outclassed by BMW's SMG II capability to shift at 80 milliseconds..which will soon most probably outclassed by Porsche and Audi's new dual clutch unit that can shift in 50 milliseconds..

I would think that 50 milliseconds will be the best this technology will offer..

Its capable of instananous full power shifts..and perfect downshifts..

I look foward to the press reports on the new Audi as I believe it will be the first out sometime in the next few months..

Should be fun to hear what the magazines have to say .....

I'm sure there will be both those that love it..and those that will lament the passing of traditional technology..

Hopefully there will be track tests of both the standard transmission and the standard transmission with computer controlled clutches..

doylede

12-05-02, 10:50 PM

Extremely well said DAD!

Originally posted by Dad
I have 3 standard shift and 2 with automatics each has a different job to do. That was when they were built that is, now the 3 standard shifts are for show only.

If I were given the chance to build the Corvette the way I wanted it I wonder how many people would buy it. That is the problem with GM; those darn buggers want a car that will sell enough to make a profit.

Mine would have an engine that would twist today’s hydro formed frames, smoke the 12 inch wide tires on the back and lift the 10 inch tires on the front, clear the 1/4 mile in 6 to 8 seconds. No radio, no heater, no active anything, no ABS, just a fuel injected, (computer controlled of course), honker that makes you wear ear plugs and change your pants. A rock crusher 4 speed and clutch setup that will take a 10 grand launch. That is its job, on a sanctioned track, on the weekend.

But wait, I want to run the road course, so I need to make the tires fit that job and setup the frame and suspension a little different. Would need to be a little lighter and more agile. May have to go to a 6 speed to get a better gear selection in the turns. Throw out the radio and the extra seat, no spare or luggage space required, now I got the perfect car.

What? I need to go to the folks this weekend, what will I drive with the wife, (don't have one of those), along. She wants what, heat, air, music, and dry during the rain. OK, this is getting serious now, lets build something that I can use and enjoy, how about a C5 automatic? The others will have to sit in the garage until the weekend that we can go back to racing. I guess if you can't afford the car that is built to do the job at hand you can compromise and get something that halfway does the job, and race it on the streets. Then there are those that race on sanctioned tracks and don't need the stick shift to show anybody anything while they are on the street.

In other words, we all have our likes and dislikes but that’s no reason to knock someone’s choice to drive an automatic, or anything else for that matter. Most of us are here because of our love for the Corvette, after having owned at least one of every generation, first 8 were sticks, and driving about 2 million miles in 45 years, I will say that the C5 is without question the finest machine I've ever driven. I feel cheated by GM on the 50th but it's done and over with, so lets look ahead and enjoy what they did give us. Will we get what we would like in the C6? Yes, and no, some will, some won't, will we be happy, again, yes and no. Will we buy them? You bet, and then we'll start adding on the after market dodads to make them run like we think we want them to.

Ain't life grand??

Dragonslayer

12-06-02, 07:33 AM

Better Seats.....Made with a higher grade leather and more body contour to really hold you in during autocrossing. The use of brushed aluminum and higher grade plastics to give the interior a more upscale look for the 21st century. Other than that..don't mess with perfection.

:beer :upthumbs :Twist :SLAP

LT1Vettepilot

12-06-02, 08:13 AM

I agree with Dragonslayer on the seats. The earlier C4 seats seemed to have much better latteral support. Well the '93 did for me anyways. That is about the only earlier C4 I've riden in extensively. My '96 seats are comfortable, but they don't have near the latteral support of the seats of pre-'94 cars. The C5 standard seats are very comfortable, much more so than my '96. However, they are still lacking latteral support.
Brushed aluminum would look nice...if tastefully done. I wouldn't want to see like the entire dash done in aluminum.

JRMaroon

12-09-02, 06:25 PM

I remember hearing about this when the Hardtop was in development. Because of the success of the C5 this car never had a chance of being produced. The Bowling Green factory is running at capacity building $45K+ cars. Sales are too good to limit revenue with the "Base" car we are talking about. I believe the XLR is also being manufactured in Bowling Green. Unless this Bear Market continues for an extended time Vette production will struggle to keep up with demand. I like the exclusivity of my Vette and I'm glad there wasn't a bargain car from the same year that looks just like it.

In '94 I ordered a new Firebird Formula because it was the closest thing to a Vette that I could afford at the time. Although this option is no longer available for the GM faithful I'm afraid we will not see the Bargain Vette.